Hot Dog! The cheapest stuff izza all I need!!!

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Joe Nerve, Feb 15, 2004.

  1. Joe Nerve

    Joe Nerve Supporting Member

    Oct 7, 2000
    New York City
    Endorsing artist: Musicman basses, Hipshot products
    Some wonderful friends of mine, including Andrea (my girlfriend?) have bought me a Behringer BX600 for my birthday - as per my request.

    Damn! I've owned and returned lotsa amps, I don't think this one's going back. Only did a house test thus far. Compared it with my Peavey. It sounds unbelievable! It's only 60 watts yet pumps out volume at 2 that my 130 watt Peavey cranks out at almost half way up. And it's incredibly warm and versatile. They advertise it as having a very "musical" 4 band EQ, and I gotta agree. There's a whole lotta useful range in all the knobs. I can use them all at 0 or 10 and still get very usable different sounds. At 0 most tone controls produce nothing, and at 10 they're overwhelming - not on this amp. I'm diggin it bigtime. And it's only $139.

    I wanted and needed an amp for acoustic gigs, and at low volumes this thing has punch that there's no way I'm getting out of the Peavey or my Hartke. Not too sure if it's gonna fair very well with The Nerve! (meaning against a very hardly hit drum set), but I know I'm gonna try it at least once in a little bar. I'm sure it can cut a low volume gig.

    The owners manual talks the thing up bigtime and if all they say is true I don't think this amp can be beat for bang for the buck. It seems really solidly built, the controls are really responsive, everything seems pretty heavy duty, not cheezy. They claim to be able to sell them as cheaply as they do because the more they sell the cheaper they can buy the parts, and they pass that savings along to us. For some reason I believe them. Maybe because they claim to use environmentally friendly materials. Maybe it's because they thanked me in the into to their owners manual for purchasing their product as opposed to congratulating me. I'm weird with stuff like that sometimes. Thus far I cannot say enough good about this thing. And my friends too. They're so cool.

    I'll post updates and a complete review with the amp name in the title (for others searching) once I get to know it a little better.

    PS. A few years back I bought a Carvin combo for about $400. I cannot even begin to describe the sound and quality difference in these 2 amps. I returned the Carvin immediately. IMO it was unusable. Perhaps I got lemon, but all that thing did was rattle, and and it seemed really cheesily made. I compare the 2 because they were both bought mail order, sight unseen.
  2. Benjamin Strange

    Benjamin Strange Commercial User

    Dec 25, 2002
    New Orleans, LA
    Owner / Tech: Strange Guitarworks
    I'm thinking that they are using slave labor (or close to it) to make them so cheap. They also set their MAP (minimum advertising policy) at a few dollars over cost. So whoever your amp was bought from would be lucky if they mad $8 profit on it. That's where they truly come up with the savings they are passing on to you.

    Glad you like the amp, and I hope you don't have any problems with it. All Behringer warranty claims must be shipped back to Germany (from what I remember). I've got one of their itty bitty mixers, and it's great. But if it broke I would just throw it away and buy a new one! :smug:
  3. brianrost

    brianrost Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 26, 2000
    Boston, Taxachusetts
    It's because they build them in China...same reason you can now buy $29 DVD players and $15 (honest!!) television sets.

    I think if Behringer continues to be successful we will see many more Chinese made amps with low price tags.
  4. kmacleish


    Nov 19, 2003
    Atlanta, GA
    Thanks, Joe. Informative post - especially since I have just recently been thinking of acquiring a small but capable amp.

    And Behringer's Web site lists service centers in many countries, including the U.S. of A., so shipping costs to Germany need not be a concern.
  5. I think Mr. B already owns a major city - literally - in this officially communist country.


    Mr. B seems to bring out the worst in all us -
  6. kmacleish


    Nov 19, 2003
    Atlanta, GA
    A successful manufacturer providing good products for a fair price and employing a lot of people is bad how, exactly?
  7. There are many other bash Behringer threads, and I admit it is a complex issue .. but:

    My main issue is that his products use effectively stolen design. Good folks have spent cash developing products, and these good folks need to re-coop the investment to stay in business. A recent example is the rip-off of a current Ashdown product, but he is famous for his Mackie rip-offs.

    In most industries patents and lawyers keep this from happening, and this protection is of course available to the music industry, but it is generally not pursued because the high cost of litigation would sink most of these smaller companies from whom Behringer copies.

    I hear folks whine about not having any money to buy stuff, and Behringer fills their need, but to me, it is both a practical issue - support the bad company that steals the design and eventually there will be no future development - and a moral issue - I'll work a couple more months and do without until I can afford to support those I like.
  8. Pete


    Jan 3, 2004
    Seattle, WA
    Unfortunatly I do own some Behr gear, mostly some dual 13 band eqs and some 4 channel comps. For the money they are hard to beat. I like the comps pretty well, the EQ'r a bit o' headache. I wish I could have afforded the DBX 231's but I can but two EQ3102's for a little more than a 231. Of course I'd rather have a DBX 2231 with the limiterm but alas they are 500 bucks.

    If a piece of Behr gear breaks down I might as well trash it, which goes against my green seattlite attitude. Plus they helped put Mackie out of business and take away sales from Rane and companies that live out here. Mackie laid off a lot of people last year and jobs like manufacturing are not easy to find. My wifes aunt used to be employed there. I'd like to see an end to products being made over sees but the demand is so high for cheap gear there's no way to stop it.

  9. Well, take a look at the auto industry; same thing has happened there. Lot's and lot's of "original" car and engine designs we're seeing, eh? The reason this is allowed to happen is because of the reason it's good for the automobile industry; stranglehold patents promote monopolies. If someone tried to patent the basic design of a modern-day sedan, then what do you think would happen to the price of sedans? The lucky SOB that got the patent in the first place would charge exorbitant prices. Behringer can reuse other company's designs, because it strengthens the industry as a whole. Price competition is good.

    I'm glad companies like Behringer are around, because otherwise, people with medium to low incomes wouldn't be able play music, period. The price of music gear is ridiculous; it needs to be brought down to a sane level.

    And don't fool yourself; you really think companies like Ashdown, Mackie, Eden, et. al are afraid to litigate because of the cost of lawyers?! :rolleyes:

    Last year was a tough year for everybody; you can't pin it all on Behringer. Mackie was far from the only company to lay-off people, due in no small part to the economic downturn we're currently climbing out of.
  10. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

    When I was growing up - late 60's - there were two choices: The Sears Catalog: with low powered but OK stuff (some of it is still available, cheap and very cool) ... and the Pro stuff: Fender et al.: I remember salivating over a JBL D140 in 1968 - for well over $100 - which is like $400 plus these days. Reconing was almost $100 - which was over a week's pay at $1.65 / hour.

    Today - I can buy a Great and complete cabinet for well under $400.

    I'm sorry, and it may be an age issue - but from here, the price of music gear today is GREAT - as is the quality.
  11. Write Ashdown - ask them. I'd be curious to the response.
  12. Petebass


    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    There is a million possible combinations for manufacturing a sedan. Same with amps and mixers. Why then do Behringer copy the designs of others right down the the last capacitor? It's just wrong. The companies they copy go out of business and all they do for R&D is buy more photocopiers.
  13. Nick man

    Nick man

    Apr 7, 2002
    Tampa Bay

    Do you know how hard it would be to actually nail Behringer legally?

    Even though the design and layout of the circuit boards on their gear is exactly the same as the gear they are copying its difficult to nail them. Even if you did, they could just move one thing over a milimeter or so and another could be turned to a different angle and viola! Its not an exact copy anymore.

    Its still a blatant ripoff.

  14. bmc


    Nov 15, 2003
    I love Behringer bashing threads. My favorite arguments:

    1. They're made by cheap labour. (If you have an issue with products being being made in a country with lower production costs, buy EBS, or Ashdown where labour is paid comparatively higher wages if it will make you feel better.)

    2. It's a rip off. They are blatantly copying Ashdown and Mackie. (Stay away from Sadowsky, Ken Smith, USA Guitars, Warmoth and Mike Lull basses. They are all crooks for copying the Fender Jazz bass??)

    3. They're made in a communist country. (I don't get that one.)

    I am stunned at the level of anger aimed at Uli Behringer for doing what Fender, Gibson, Lakland, Sadowsky, Spector, Warwick have all done. Taken advantage of globalization and access to cheaper markets to produce products. Lower priced means greater market opportunities. Greater market opportunities means more $$$.
    The real downside to this is these countries are developing industries, tooling the factories with the latest machinery enabling them to build better products with better quality control as time ges on. They also acqiure more experience and expertise and eventually really good products that we all want. If this trend continues, we will see an increased shift of musical instrument manufacturing away from North America in a big way. In terms of output of guitars/basses, I wouldn't be surprised to find out Korea leads in volume output.

    Oh....and I own a Behringer practice amp. It's not an Ashdown. It's a low end practice amp. I wanted something cheap that would turn when I hit the switch and I would be able to hear my bass. I wasn't in the market for a studio reference system. In fact, to be truly honest, I wasn't even the market for a bass amp. Prices in Europe aren't simply high, they're offensive. The Behringer line is so economical, I treated myself one afternoon to a piece of gear that cost around the same price a s a dinner for 4. That low priced piece of bass amp is great, reliable and giggable. And if it dies, I'll walk it to the curb on Tuesday morning when the big blue garbage truck drives down my street. Saturday morning, I'll go buy another one.

    I find the whole Behringer argument dumb. It's not unlike saying everyone should stop flying Southwest Airlines because they charge $39 to fly between LAX and Vegas. They should be paying American Airlines $139!!!!

    Have a nice day.
  15. The 0x

    The 0x

    Aug 24, 2003
    Timonium, MD
    All your raves will turn to rants once it stops working on you. :meh:
  16. bmc


    Nov 15, 2003
    " All your raves will turn to rants once it stops working on you. "

    That's a good point. Assuming of course that it will die on me. If this product is an exact ripoff of Ashdown, then I have nothing to worry about, do I?
  17. The 0x

    The 0x

    Aug 24, 2003
    Timonium, MD
    It's an exact ripoff of ashdown, except for the build quality.

    I hope you are one of the lucky ones who's doesn't break down at all, although I'd be praying everynight just in case.
  18. Nick man

    Nick man

    Apr 7, 2002
    Tampa Bay
    This is the only thing I have a problem with.

    Sadowsky, Ken Smith, USA Guitars, Warmoth, and Mike Lull all do something to add to the Fender design.

    If I wanted a Fender bass, Id buy a Fender bass, but if I want something a little-a lot more special then Id look at one of the makers you suggested. There is a reason they cost more.

    Warmoth in fact pays Fender to use their designs so that takes them right out of that argument.

    In addition to those you mentioned, you might want to add Lakland, Hotwire, Altier Z and others.

    If you wanted to make a better comparison to what Behringer does you should mention Johnson, Harmony, Ibanez (pre-lawsuit), AXL etc.

    Behringer was bold enough to even copy the manuals to several of the products they copied. Ask Bob Lee who wrote the QSC RMX manuals how he feels about that.

  19. Petebass


    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    2. It's a rip off. They are blatantly copying Ashdown and Mackie. (Stay away from Sadowsky, Ken Smith, USA Guitars, Warmoth and Mike Lull basses. They are all crooks for copying the Fender Jazz bass??)

    This is the only one of your arguements that made even a little bit of sense, and it's still an easy one to shoot down.

    The big difference here is that these basses cost the same or more than a Fender. None of these companies are trying to wipe Fender out of existence. Come back to me when a Warmoth costs 1/2 the price of a Jazz and maybe the arguement will hold water.

    Sure there are cheap Fender clones as well but that's a completely different kettle of Fish. Fender still get their sale eventually because people use those basses as stepping stones to better quality instruments. The same can not be said for Pro Audio purchases.

    I hope you invent something one day and someone steals the idea from you.
  20. SMASH

    SMASH Guest

    Jan 18, 2000
    "The cheapest stuff izza all I need!!!"

    A friend was saying yesterday how the Space Ace walk seemed so cool, until he grew up and realized it was just a pathetic drunk trying to keep from tripping up in his platform boots.

    Joe, have you considered that for the cost of your Behringer + Peavey + Hartke you could have a Mesa Walkabout and blow all of those other amps away in every category. :)