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How about nixing the religious comments on TB?

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by ::::BASSIST::::, Apr 9, 2005.


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  1. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    Hey guys, i just read the thread about southpaw wondering if there were other gay bassists on TB etc.

    What i noticed very quickly is that many people thought it was necessary to bring their judgmental religious beliefs into the discussion. I really wish religious people would keep their views to themselves on TB (and in general). I am a dedicated vegan for over the last 10 years and an apiring Buddhist so its not that i dont hold strong beliefs. I just dont think they have any place here. Political issues are not tolerated (i once had a signature that said "George W. Bush Sucks" before the election, and i was very quickly asked by three mods to change it). So why should people be allowed to have preachy religious signatures? Or posts which contain such sentiments as "you're lifestyle is wrong but jesus loves you anyway." Who has the right to judge?

    I know its difficult to moderate such things and, in general, the mods do an excellent job, but I dont think its cool to let religious dudes preach to the rest of us.. no matter how subtlely its done.

    I love TB and i truly enjoy reading the posts and learning so much about bass and music. Thanks for putting up with my rant.
     
  2. Vorago

    Vorago (((o)))

    Jul 17, 2003
    Antwerp, Belgium
    I'm with you man! I know exactly what you are talking about, if feel the same way about these things. I mailed John Turner about it, I didn't get a reply, but I hope he read it, but basicly it was saying the same things as you are.

    I hope this gets discussed by the mods.
     
  3. Nikehawk

    Nikehawk Guest

    Jul 29, 2001
    Yorkville, IL, USA
    God doesn't exist. :hyper:
     
  4. Vorago

    Vorago (((o)))

    Jul 17, 2003
    Antwerp, Belgium
    This wasn't a topic about peoples religion (everybody is free to believe what he/she wants) , and it'd be cool if we would keep it that way, so don't start giving those kind of replies, because that will get this thread closed!

    If you feel the same way, say it in a proper way, without being offensive to the other users.
     
  5. Nikehawk

    Nikehawk Guest

    Jul 29, 2001
    Yorkville, IL, USA
    I would think that God doesn't exist? Does that count? :hyper:
     
  6. Trevorus

    Trevorus

    Oct 18, 2002
    Urbana, IL

    I get where you are coming from. But I don't agree. I think that whenever it steps over the line to forcing it on anyone else, then it needs to be dealt with. But usually religious discussions are limited to supporting members in Tin Pan Alley, or the Lobby forums.

    I think if we restrict too much, it will go over the line and nothing but basses and directly bass related things will be discussed here. We are so much more than that, but we just need to know how to respect other people. I think that TB may become too litigious to stand. I'm all for rules, but we don't need clamps on everything.

    If someone seems preachy, and it's not towards you, try not to worry about it too much. You don't HAVE to read it. With a topic such as homosexuality, you know there are huge religion inspired sentiments there. If this kind of thing gets to you, you aren't forced to read it.

    Forcing people to leave religion out of their speech is just as bad as someone telling you your lifestyle is wrong, IMHO. It makes up who I am, and it comes up. I hope you don't take offence to any of this. I like TB as well, and I would like to see it run smoothly.
     
  7. Nikehawk

    Nikehawk Guest

    Jul 29, 2001
    Yorkville, IL, USA
    God still doesn't exist... :hyper:
     
  8. Trevorus

    Trevorus

    Oct 18, 2002
    Urbana, IL
    BTW, you're not funny.

    Can we ban these comments?
     
  9. Vorago

    Vorago (((o)))

    Jul 17, 2003
    Antwerp, Belgium
    Problem is, you cannot "not" read it! In order to know what it is about you have to read it. Those kind of sigs and posts ARE preachy, if you want it or not.
     
  10. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    I think its quite a stretch to say that nixxing religious dogma equates having everything BUT bass be disallowed. I advocate the opposite. Basically, everything BUT religion and politics should be allowed. Whatever personal views are held, be they pro or con god/religion should be kept off tb. You can discuss that in your church or to people who are sincerely open to it. Having threads hijacked by fundamentalists OR athiests isnt cool. The point is we should all be free to believe what we want, but when you espouse your views to another you are purposely erroding THEIR FREEDOM to believe what they want. And that my brother, is not cool.
     
  11. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    There is no need to aspire to Buddhism. You just decide to be one, then be one.
     
  12. Trevorus

    Trevorus

    Oct 18, 2002
    Urbana, IL
    I get you, but I think we can draw some pretty clear and concise lines here. My signature shows my faith, but does not condemn anyone else. That's ok. When it condemnatory, derogatory, or infalmmatory (or any other -ory word), it needs to go. We can argue percieved "preachiness," but the fact of the matter is, we can't please everyone. If someone has an opinion, I don't always feel the need to prove them wrong. Though I may not agree, I will either move on, or respond respectfully.

    I am trying to find a way to where we can just not worry about mostly meanial things, and let the mods do the important jobs, like teaching all the newcomers how to use the "Search" function. ;)

    Just like Nikehawks posts... I am offended, but I just ignore it, and let him have his say. It has no bearing on whether or not I think God exists. I just tell it like it is. He's not funny.

    The way I look at it is thus: If I have to read one more "Jesus is my..." t-shirt, phrase, or signature, I'll scream. But that is something that someone wants to say. So I just don't worry about it. It doesn't have any bearing on my life. And I am sure you can feel that way about other people's opinions. They don't interfere with your life, so just don't worry. Express your opinion if you feel the need, and if not, click away.

    I am trying to prevent more restrictions, rules, and other little guidelines that are uneccessary if people practice a little respect.
     
  13. Trevorus

    Trevorus

    Oct 18, 2002
    Urbana, IL
    But isn't it also denying one's freedom that you can't talk about the path that God has led you on? Or that you don't believe in God? Is it not denying one's freedom to say I don't like X candidate because of *blank-blank*. I don't think people pushing their religious or political views is right, either. The reason I went to the example of TB being just bass, and directly bass related is, Where will it stop? Why should we deny ourselves the discussion of these things in a proper context? If we would discuss it with friends face to face, why can we not discuss in the same way here?

    By telling someone your beliefs, you are not denying their freedom to believe what they want. If people were that easily swayed, I could convince you that I hatched from an egg. I could believe that, and you telling me otherwise wouldn't be denying my freedom to believe that. It would only be a differing opinion that I would have to consider due to the nature of discussion.
     
  14. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    So if someone had a sig which said "Praise be to Satan," you wouldn't allow yourself to care, and just gloss over it? I doubt it.

    These things are insidious. They do have a bearing on my life. Religious zealots take every "opportunity" to "share" what they believe to be true. The more they preach their beliefs the more those beliefs form the fabric of our society. Those beliefs indoctrinate the masses and make their way into our important societal instituitions such as public schools, prisons, and government. The more this kind of thing is tolerated the more it will proliferate. The result: fundamentalists notions of what is right or wrong have a direct bearing on nonbelievers' lives, for example the gay marriage issue.
     
  15. I think JT, Jazzbo, JMX and Blackbird have the most difficult forum to have to moderate. I have told JT so as well.

    Think about it, it would be hard to get anything offensive to have to moderate in the "Strings" board, but here its a very different can of worms (which I guess my thread opened)

    It must be impossible to be non-judgemental in moderating threads that deal with religion, sexuality, politics etc - the mods have a right to their own beliefs after all and it would have to affect the way they moderate these forums. That being said, it is a sign of outstanding empathy with us all that they moderate so fairly.

    I think the problem lies more with the way that threads get hijacked more than the right to express an opinion. I requested that my thread be reviewed and closed because it was going nowhere good.

    I think that we should all be able to say whatever we feel as long as it takes into account the rules of the board - it would help a lot if EVERYONE read them - they're stickied at the top of the page. The rule about respect is definitely essential reading.

    In fact, the view that Trevorus is defending is strangely similar to the way I would defend my own viewpoint. It just takes some leap of imagination to put yourself in someone elses shoes and you may be surprised to find that we are really not that different at all.

    Thanks for all the TB support

    Pete
     
  16. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    This is incorrect. The ultimate purpose of such discussions is to indoctrinate the nonbeliever. Christians believe its their biblical duty as modelled by Jesus to save the nonbelievers from the fiery depths of hell. Its a very important component of Christianity. To say that a christian can just have a discussion about it w/ no intention of converting the nonbelieving party is blatantly hogwash. Missionaries, the sermon on the mount, outreach... its all based on the fundamental premise of conversion.

    Regarding the freedom issue... lets look at smoking for example. a nonsmoker is standing under a bus shelter protected from the rain. a person comes along and lights up a cigarrette and stands under the same shelter. the smoker is exercising his right to smoke, but the nonsmoker has his right to breathe clean air taken away. The issue is this: the smoker is doing the action that removes the freedom from the nonsmoker. Same thing with preaching. The fundamentalists' preaching is taking away the nonbelievers' freedom to read posts w/o having overt or otherwise, religious dogma being spewed upon them. The person doing the action is the one taking away the freedom.
     
  17. Nick man

    Nick man

    Apr 7, 2002
    Tampa Bay
    Like Trev was saying, Religion is a big part of life to a lot of these members and as a result it will be involved in their posts. Whether its their church gig, or the belief that bass was the way God sent them down a good path rather than a path of crime, its part of their life.

    On TB we discuss bass, and in OT we discuss other things, but in both areas there can be some overlap with religion. Religious debates should be banned, but not posts that mention religion, or religious sigs within reason.

    Should we ban Major Metal?
     
  18. Nick man

    Nick man

    Apr 7, 2002
    Tampa Bay
    While many accounts of religious experiences may be aimed at showing the good side of it and salvation aspect, not every mention is an attempt at conversion. I think you have a very dated image of Christianity if that is your honest belief.

    The Sermon on the Mount was Jesus preaching to his followers. They didnt need to be converted and they didnt need to be there. They followed him there.
     
  19. Folks, TB is not going to magically give you the ultimate correct answer here.

    Why don't we save our mods some work and just agree that this is not the place to debate the rights of others to voice their opinions?

    Mkay? Everyone is right, in their own opinion. Issue solved, close thread.
     
  20. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    Nick, I LOVE the "praise satan" sig. I guess its the if we cant beat 'em join 'em rationale.

    However, i disagree with you to some extent. just as political sigs are banned so should religious ones. there are some people who are very politcally active. politics plays a major role in their lives, yet they are not allowed to have political sigs. I guess i am saying either allow all things of controversy or none at all.

    though i am a hardcore vegan and veganism plays a major role in my life, i make a strong effort to keep it to myself. i think people would think it very unpleasant if my sig read something like. "Please don't murder innocent animals just for the sake of your tastebuds!" So i would never write such a sig. In the same regard, i find it very unpleasant to have religious dogma foisted upon me.
     



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