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How can I get more volume and less cone excursion from my 300T and 2x15?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Ty McNeely, Dec 2, 2001.


  1. Ty McNeely

    Ty McNeely

    Mar 27, 2000
    TX
    I'm havin' a bit of a problem with my amp...nothin' technical, but it just shows how little I really know about amps. I'm going to be needing more volume soon because we're going to be playing in a packed out gym, but even in rehearsal I can't get loud enough without the cones on my 2x15 jumpin' around quite a bit. I've got my EQ flat with highs boosted a bit, both low and high knobs about 3, and low, high, and mid-notch switches off. What else can I do to get the sound I want, at the volume I want, without makin' the cones on my 2x15 go crazy (and possibly blowing them:oops: )?


    Edit: Just needed to add that saying I need more volume doesn't mean I've got all knobs on 10 and I'm expecting more volume, I just can't get decently loud without makin' the cones go nuts...Actually, I have my channel 1 volume about 6 and my master about 4 or 5 with my bass (Fender MIM Jazz 5) on about 8. I know the headroom is there, I just gotta figure out what I'm doin' wrong makin' the cones jump so much.:confused:
     
  2. JMX

    JMX Vorsprung durch Technik

    Sep 4, 2000
    Cologne, Germany
    What cab and speaker brand?

    High excursion is inevitable for low frequencies and high volume.
     
  3. Ty McNeely

    Ty McNeely

    Mar 27, 2000
    TX

    Duurrrr:p That might be helpful, eh?

    Both are Sunn. I just assumed everyone knew that the 300T was a Sunn, but you know what they say about those who assume:p:D
     
  4. Ty McNeely

    Ty McNeely

    Mar 27, 2000
    TX

    Well, I expected that, but whenever I look at the thing jumpin' around I know it can't be healthy and there has to be a way to prevent it.
     
  5. MikeyD

    MikeyD

    Sep 9, 2000
    As said above, lots of cone movement comes with the territory in low bass / high volume applications. If your speaker cones are indeed nearing their excursion limits, it simply means that the cabinet is near the limit of how much low bass it can actually generate. If so, you still have a few options: turn down the low bass EQ (and/or don't play down on a B string so much), turn up the mids a bit (they will help you cut through better), and think about placing your cabinet as close to a corner of the room as possible. Corner placement is an easy way to boost the bottom end. If all of this still isn't enough (and you have to find out how it sounds out in the audience, not necessarily where you're playing), then you will quite likely need more cabinets.

    The other thing is, maybe your bandmates are just too loud!

    - Mike
     
  6. Ty McNeely

    Ty McNeely

    Mar 27, 2000
    TX
    Well, I have a feeling I can probably cut the EQ a bit and still be ok. With 2 15's, there's quite a lot of low end already there;) Thanks for the help!
     
  7. JMX

    JMX Vorsprung durch Technik

    Sep 4, 2000
    Cologne, Germany
    I already thought you meant that, but I wanted more specific info, esp. on the speakers: Eminence or...? Power rating?
     
  8. Ty McNeely

    Ty McNeely

    Mar 27, 2000
    TX

    The speakers are "Special Design Eminence".

    The 300T puts out 300 watts, and the 215 handles 300 watts @ 8 ohms.
     
  9. You said the cab is 8 ohms.
    Does the 300T put out 300 watts at 8 ohms?

    Also, does the speaker make exaggerated movement with just touching the strings? or do you mean playing a hard note makes the cones seem to strain?
    Even with high volume, your speakers should be "in control"

    I got an old SVT and with one 4-10 cab, (8ohms), I got lower volume/high speaker movement.
    I added a 2-10(8ohm), and I got a lot more volume and no extra speaker flop.
    The amp seems to really like 4 ohms, and the volume was worlds apart.Maybe it is the same for the Sunn.

    There was a lot of recent discussion with this mentioned, but it was way over my head.

    The techies will know the science of this. I just follow what my instincts tell me.
     
  10. I got involved with a bud and his 2x15 cabinet when he blew a driver. He took his cab into a local Boston shop and had them do a sweep to determine the tuning frequency. It's been awhile, but I think it was around 45 to 50 Hz.

    Q: are you seeing excessive cone movement below low G (49 Hz)?

    If you are, I'll probably get whonked (again) for my commenting about not using the cab below its designed tuning frequency, but so be it. I'll go on record again: IMO, cabs should not be used below the tuning frequency at high power.

    http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32506&perpage=20&pagenumber=1
     
  11. Ty McNeely

    Ty McNeely

    Mar 27, 2000
    TX
    I haven't noticed it excessively anywhere below a D on my B string, but that was with my EQ cranked up. It never was EXCESSIVE I don't guess (not enough to really worry me), but I haven't had the chance to really crank it like I will have to tomorrow night because our band room amplifies sound TERRIBLY so I can't really get it very loud. How could I test what the usable frequency range of the cab is? Since I play a 5 string (and actually use all 5 strings), I guess I do need to know what the usable range is so I don't end up blowin' a driver.
     
  12. geshel

    geshel

    Oct 2, 2001
    Seattle
    Do the cones flap around, seemingly in no relation to the note you're playing? This would be the sign of pushing the amp too far, and more power could actually be what you need. Only if the speakers can handle the average you'd be putting through them however. Two 15s should be able to put out a very healthy amount of bass.

    If that's not it, if it is really the lows (but you said you *don't* notice it below D on the B string?), and the cones are moving smoothly and consistently but a lot, then I'd try cutting the real lows and boosting the midbass. It sounds to me like it is the former problem though.
     
  13. neptune

    neptune

    Feb 2, 2001
    Maryland
    The low volume makes me think the speakers may be wired out of phase. Not sure if this would cause excessive excursion though. Techs?
     
  14. You're right. Out of phase speakers kick each other around as they very effectively take away each other's air.

    Maybe one speaker is already blown, causing the about same effect, and you would hardly notice.

    Or maybe it's what Geshel said: excessive clipping. This would cause the speakers to clearly visibly "wave" around, like some amps do when you switch them on.
     
  15. Ty McNeely

    Ty McNeely

    Mar 27, 2000
    TX
    Most definitely not. The amp has never even been pushed to "performance" volume until tonight (will elaborate momentarily)


    That's possible, but highly doubtful.

    --------

    Anyhoo, tonight was the night of the amps first real performance. I did exactly as I said I would....cut the lows on the EQ and all knobs.

    Before, my low knob was actually on about 6 where the problem was occuring. So, tonight (and today during practice), I turned the low knob down to about 3-4, and then cut the lows on the EQ to about -2. Worked WONDERFULLY. I was still getting good, SOLID lows (standing in front of the amp I could feel the air comin' out the ports around my ankles:D), but with NO cone movement at all, even cranked when I was jackin' around. Everybody was amazed at how good it sounded (the amp, not the player:D), so I guess you could say the problem has been solved:D

    Thanks for the help guys:D!

    Man I love this place:)
     
  16. geshel

    geshel

    Oct 2, 2001
    Seattle
    Cool! Well I'm glad we were wrong. That's the most easily fixed problem that was listed. :)
     

  17. uhuh :D