How can you not let this situation mess with you?

Discussion in 'Band Management [BG]' started by glocke1, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. glocke1

    glocke1 Supporting Member

    Apr 30, 2002
    At the risk of sounding bat :poop: crazy, how can you not let this mess with you?

    This is going on the 5th or 6th time with this particular KB player over the past couple of years, and twice within the past two months.

    Over the years this guy has asked for my availability on dates with one of his bands, I've confirmed my availability and would get details of the gig, etc...than a few days later or sometimes a few days before the gig Im told I'm either not needed or the gig is cancelled.

    With the former it seems like their regular, preferred bassist became available...fine. I get that, although I still consider it unprofessional/weird to have me make a commitment like that (I believe in following through with things for both parties on either end. If you tell someone they are playing, you don't back out if you want to keep them in your pool of musicians to draw from), but if they are more comfortable with that guy I totally get that. With the latter, I've found out twice now that I was told a gig was cancelled, only to hear through the grapevine that it actually occurred and when I followed up I got conflicting answers as to why i was told it was cancelled.

    Now, a month or so ago the same KB and I were discussing adding bass to some gig he does with a vocalist, I got a list of tunes from the guy, followed up with a "Im ready lets do it" text, and was told they aren't interested in adding bass to the lineup. Next thing I know I see a good drummer friend has a gig scheduled with them that includes bass. While I am not overly bent out of shape about it, I'm still left with a *** thought process about it and obviously bothered enough to make this post. Admittedly it's messing with my head a little bit as this KB and myself go back a few years and I've hooked him up with a bunch of gigs in the past.

    It's pretty weird and I've not encountered this kind of behavior with others...Fortunately others in my musicians circles are better at following through when they schedule things with me.
    Garret Graves, murphy, fhm555 and 3 others like this.
  2. neckdive


    Oct 11, 2013
    Don't do business with liars.
  3. PauFerro


    Jun 8, 2008
    United States
    He's using you and has no loyalty to anyone but his situation, from the sound of it. You might tolerate such behavior once in a blue moon, but when it's a pattern like this, it's unacceptable. He clearly has a different bass player he likes to use, and you are in second, or third position. But to offer you gigs, have you accept, and then bail on you is unacceptable. What if you did that to them? How would they react? They wouldn't like it. Therefore, once they have committed to you, they need to follow through.

    I mentioned offer and acceptance in another thread. Although usually pretty unenforceable, even a verbal offer, an offer followed by an acceptance forms a legal contract. For me, I use it as a minimum moral standard for following through on promises. If I offer, and the person accepts, then we have an agreement and am morally bound to honor it. If I can't follow through, there is an honest convo about it, but rarely do I ever not follow through. I think it's probably happened once in 5-10 years. I think the circumstances would have had to be where I booked two guys for the same gig (2 keyboard players, for example) by accident and had to cancel one.

    If I were you, I'd have a frank conversation with the guy. Let him know that you're getting weary of always being asked to do stuff, agreeing, and then being cut out of the gig. Cite the pattern -- patterns get you everywhere in crucial conversations like this. See if there is a reasonable explanation from him. There probably isn't but give the benefit of the doubt at first so you are justified in being firmer later in the convo. If he won't be held accountable, or gives an airy-fairy reason to make the moment go away, I'd cite specific gigs to find out what the heck happened. Eventually you'll probably get an unacceptable answer about why this happens. Hold him accountable.

    After the unacceptable answer, let him know that next time he offers, and you agree, that it better be a firm gig if you want the relationship to continue. Also, cite the number of gigs you've thrown his way -- if he wants that to continue, then you need to see more respect for your time and more seriousness given to offers you accept. Ask him how he'd feel if you accepted a gig and then kept bailing x% of the time. He wouldn't like it, so ask him not to do the same to you.
    Jon McBass, Holdsg, IamGroot and 9 others like this.
  4. glocke1

    glocke1 Supporting Member

    Apr 30, 2002
    I thought about that, but the last conversation I had about him offering a gig, telling me it's cancelled than finding out it wasn't cancelled left me with a less than satisfactory answer (gist of it is he kept claiming it was cancelled, while the drummer I know that played the gig says word of it being cancelled was never relayed to him).

    I don't like letting people/situations get inside my head like this. I'm probably just better off cutting him loose and ignoring his texts/calls going forward.
  5. charlie monroe

    charlie monroe Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 14, 2011
    Buffalo, NY
    This doesn’t even go far enough.

    Take steps to remove them from your environment.
  6. buldog5151bass

    buldog5151bass Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.

    Oct 22, 2003
    Sounds like he's using you as insurance. The only way I would take a gig from him is money up front , non-refundable.
  7. Goatrope


    Nov 18, 2011
    Sarasota Florida
    I’d just ignore him from now on. I wouldn't waste any energy in discussion or problem solving. He no longer exists.
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
  8. Bunk McNulty

    Bunk McNulty It is not easy to do simple things correctly Suspended Supporting Member

    Dec 11, 2012
    Northampton, MA
    An excellent idea.
  9. Kriegs


    Feb 14, 2018
    And the answer was inside of you all along... :thumbsup:
  10. primusfan1989


    Jan 17, 2005
    new jersey
    You don't have to let it mess with you, just don't work with this guy.
  11. john_g

    john_g Supporting Member

    Sep 14, 2007
    Ive had this sort of thing happen alot...and it happened not long ago when I hooked up with a drummer in an attempt to start a tribute band. Hes a great guy, great drummer, but too flakey. I would ignore the dude if it was me. If I saw him out and about I would be nice and personable, but wouldnt take any of his calls anymore. Sounds like the guy either is a total butt on purpose or is wishy-washy and cant fully commit and then defaults to the people he works with most.
  12. DirtDog


    Jun 7, 2002
    The Deep North
    if it's a casual relationship with no strings attached, that type of behaviour gets only one chance with me at this point in my life. I wasn't always like that, but as I've gotten older, I've become less tolerant of that kind of thing.
    Also, becomes a bit more complicated if it's family, long term friends or business associates but in this strike and yer out!
    MynameisMe and teh-slb like this.
  13. bherman

    bherman Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 30, 2009
    Grand Junction, CO
    Flake alert. Next time he contacts you just tell him no thanks, not available.
    SactoBass, Tad, 707GK and 2 others like this.
  14. allanhearn


    Apr 22, 2004
    Ask for a deposit before you agree to the gig. Non refundable. My wife works doing makeup work for weddings and such. She will get a a bride and 3 brides maids gig only to get cancelled last minute. She now takes half upfront so even if they cancel she makes $. Only way to not get f'ed around.
  15. “Flake alert... just say no thanks. Not available.”

    This. That way, you can choose to become “available” should you ever want to be.

    I had to check your location when l saw this post... but no, probably not the same kb player I’m thinking of. :rollno:
    teh-slb likes this.
  16. This sort of thing is why I don’t do sub/fill in gigs. I have too much on my plate family and job wise for me to be scheduling gigs only to be told later on that I’m not needed. I would stop entertaining gig offers from this person completely
    Spidey2112 and mexicant like this.
  17. Eilif

    Eilif Grooving under the MDW runway.

    Oct 1, 2001
    First of all, you are right to feel messed with. You are also correct that the status quo can't continue. When you engage the services of someone to play a gig, you DON'T drop them because a preferred musician becomes available. Some folks will say -with good reason- that you should drop him now, but for me, next steps would entirely depend upon how much $ is on the line.

    I'm never surprised when I've found that folks will get away with what they can get away with. It's just the nature of folks who lack a moral center. Some people will never change or bend and those people can be cut out of your musical life, but if you set your boundaries correctly, many formerly flawed relationships can at least be made functionally fair to both parties.

    The practical end of this is...

    -If there's good money to be had, I'd email him a list of the 6 specific dates from which you've been replaced or dropped at the last minute. I wouldn't challenge him on his lies about the "canceled" thing as that's not going to get you anywhere. I'd just list 6 dates that you "know" you were asked to do and then were done without you. Let him know that you only want to be called for gigs where he's actually going to use you. If he can't agree to that, drop him and don't go back. If he agrees but screws up again drop him and don't go back.

    -If there isn't good money to be had drop him and don't look back.
  18. JRA

    JRA my words = opinion Gold Supporting Member

    How can you not let this situation mess with you?
    attenuate both the appearance and the reality of your eagerness. that part belongs to you. you've made yourself available for the treatment about which you complain. you may need to alter your perspective when dealing with folks who have a different agenda than your own.

    that said: if you're looking for more gigging opportunities (his included) you have to be forthright re: your limits and boundaries. if you want to get him "out of your head" = educate him about you (requires communication).

    the binary thinking of previous posters (all or none, either/or, accept or move on) is lame and it doesn't take into account that there are plenty of options which depend on communication...even with the narcissist KB player...which you are probably capable of.

    good luck communicating with another human being about your limits and boundaries! :thumbsup:
    Spidey2112 and oldrocker like this.
  19. MrLenny1


    Jan 17, 2009
    New England
    Drop him, he's a flake. I had a similar issue with a KB player also.
    Life is too short to deal with idiots.
    SactoBass and teh-slb like this.
  20. Pork_Chop


    May 11, 2012
    Boulder, CO USA
    What's a KB player?

    And...Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.