How many builders are using looks instead of sound to determine pickup placement?

I get where you're coming from. I think a lot of the time, people just use a "near-standard" placement, or they just visually place 'em in the gap between the end of the fretboard and the bridge, with the general conventional knowledge that towards neck = bassier, towards bridge = more treble.

Interested... just how do you determine the "optimum" placement with the pickup suspended over the strings? What are you listening for? Are you developing any predictable patterns in placement? Does it change when using TWO pickups? Or different strings?

I've never heard a plausible "math" explaination for pickup placement, especially as the string is variably "shortened" constantly by fretting it. Any harmonic "nodes" would shift accordingly.

 

The story goes on the Precision that various positions were tried and the position it sells with was considered the best. I don't know about any other different basses, but I imagine they experimented as well, or they copied Fender spacing since why mess with a good thing? I'm sure looks came somewhat into play as well on some basses, and I'm sure a few folks just dropped pickups in and hoped for the best.

 

Probably right!

But I'd bet that the "optimal" placement would change with string types (like you'd be looking a little more bridge-ish with flatwounds), with string guage, with the amplification you were trying to "optimize" the sound with, even the player's hand placement and technique, using fingers or pick... even the room!

I know if I were to go into full-scale research on pickup placement... and I believed it was the "key" to optimal sound... I'd drive myself crazy with the variables until I developed a workable sliding pickup system. I know it's been done, but it's certainly not common.

 

Well just remember that the key to optimal sound is always you

 

A stingray is another bass where a certain position produces the character of the bass. Leo did NOT copy a P-bass to make it. In fact he didn't copy a P-bass to make a Jazz bass. Pickup position makes a difference but I don't think it's a huge difference. It's sort of like the "tonewood" thing. You know, arguments over Jazz pickup placement 70's vs 60's etc. Mostly a bass with one sort of toward the bridge pickup and one toward the neck pickup seems to work OK. In a single pickup bass like a P-bass or Stingray or Wishbass, then finding the "sweetspot" for the sound you want becomes more important.

Personally I love my Modulus with the three pickups. Let's you get a decent tonal variety. My Modulus favorites are "sweetspot" alone or Neck and bridge in series.

 

Like most other Luthiers who have been around a while, I've built several bench-top mule instruments to experiment with pickup placement. The results are not that exciting. Move the pickup towards the neck, the lows come up, the highs go down, and the attack curve goes up. Just as if you are turning up the Bass knob on the amp, while turning down the Treble knob the same amount. Move the pickup towards the bridge, the highs come up, the lows go down, and the attack softens. Sliding the same pickup all the way from the bridge to the neck is a straight linear progression between those two sounds. And the change isn't drastic. The boost and cut is small, as compared to what you can get from the Bass and Treble controls on the amp. Throughout the sliding range, moving the pickup a small amount makes......a small amount of shift in the tone curve.

I haven't seen any Magic Sweet Spots. If your definition of the Perfect Pickup Position is Exactly Like A Fender, well then, measure a Fender and put it there. Leo didn't use any secret mystical formulas. Like the rest of us, he messed around with a bench mule and settled on pickup positions as a compromise of tone, ergonomics, looks, and engineering.

Building a bass with a sliding pickup sounds like a great idea....until you've actually done it. Then you realize that it's much easier to just turn the Tone knob. Or put in two pickups, which are built to different formulas, to have distinctly different sounds.

 

Clearly not me:

 

Ok, but you didn't exactly skimp on looks on that one - it's beautiful!

 

Interesting that some are saying pickup placement doesn't make a big difference. In most of those silly tonewood argument threads, pickup placement is listed as very important. I think if you have a pickup close to the bridge, and then you move it close to the neck, you will notice a big difference. The eq curve changes noticeably. However, I'm not so sure about fine-tuning the placement of the pickup; I'm not convinced that moving the pickup an inch or so matters a lot. Fans of the 60s or 70s jazz pickup placement will argue this point all day long, though.

A read fairly regularly on here that a Lakland can't quite cop a stingray tone because the humbucker isn't quite in the sweet spot. A Lakland doesn't quite cop a stingray tone, but I would think that is because it doesn't have a stingray preamp.

YMMV.

 

I don't think anyone is saying pickup placement isn't important. Rather, what I'm hearing is that small changes in position only affect tone in small ways (not exactly a shocking thought).

 

I think that is essentially what I said too. Maybe it didn't come across as such. About 82.635% of all TB threads really boil down to things that "affect tone in small ways," so it apparently is more important than I think it is.

 

It would be nice to have a rail system to slide along (Westone comes to mind) to test this theory.

 

Just going back to JimmyM's point - these discussions invariably end up arguing and splitting hairs on minor technical aspects, when the truth is that perception of good tone is an entirely subjective "personal preference" thing. Find a tone you absolutely hate, someone somewhere is going to like it.

 

Yup, see Bruce Johnson's post. They do exist, but have never been very successful. One of my Gibsons has it, I never seem to play that bass much.

 

I remember reading an interview long ago with Jack Casady in which he was talking about the development of his signature Epiphone bass, and he said that they spent a lot of time, and did a lot of experimenting, trying to determine the best location for the pickup. Evidently, moving it just a smidge one way or the other made a big difference.

Is it possible that pickup location has a bigger effect for low-impedence pickups, like the one on this bass, than other kinds of pickups?

 

I have seen a few builders on here using jigs with sliding pickups to facilitate finding the desired location by ear. Some where Grabber style sliding pickups in the body, some had the pickups on top of the strings instead.

Most builders just choose from the menu of tried and true pickup locations though, I guess.

 

The frequencies cancelled and emphasized due to node and anti node location, by a particular pickup location, remain constant at any given tuning of the string, no matter where you fret.

Say a particular location cancels the overtone 4 octaves up (640hz) from the fundamental (40hz) of the open E-string. If you play the 12th fret, that same location will now cancel the overtone 3 octaves up from the 12th fret fundamental (80hz). The cancelled frequency will still be 640 hz. This relationship holds true for all nodes/harmonics/locations.

 

With open and 12th fret comparisons, I'll believe that relationship.

Not so sure with other positions, though.

 

Great marketing interviews are.

With all the experimenting Casady & Epiphone did is the pickup location on his signature bass much different from that on the Gibson it was modeled after?