How To Write Chord Progressions With NEGATIVE HARMONY [Simple Explanation]

Discussion in 'General Instruction [BG]' started by Whousedtoplay, Jul 6, 2019.


  1. Whousedtoplay

    Whousedtoplay

    May 18, 2013
    TEXAS
    How To Write Chord Progressions With NEGATIVE HARMONY [Simple Explanation]




    Tutorial: Writing Melodies With Negative Harmony and Modal Exchange [Practical Examples]




    M.I.T.A. - Shortcuts & Secrets in Negative Harmony

     
    oZZma, mambo4, jchrisk1 and 2 others like this.
  2. bholder

    bholder Affable Sociopath Supporting Member

    Sep 2, 2001
    Vestal, NY
    Received a gift from Sire* (see sig)
    [​IMG]
     
    JimK, RustyAxe and Whousedtoplay like this.
  3. Malcolm35

    Malcolm35

    Aug 7, 2018
    Thanks, now that I'm in THE home, this will give me something to occupy my time.

    My first reaction was; "Why would you want negative harmony"? I'll go back and study this as I'm a sucker for anything modal. And I do enjoy having something non-fiction to read after lunch, before I drift off for my afternoon nap. :cool:

    I'll comment later.

    EDIT, by chance do you know where this may be in book form. Kinda need to write it out to study what is being said. If not back to re-wind.

    Thought it was a re-hash of back cycling, however, it goes deeper. Thanks again for posting.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
    Whousedtoplay likes this.
  4. Whousedtoplay

    Whousedtoplay

    May 18, 2013
    TEXAS
    Not a lot of tutorials, mostly Youtube videos.
    Check this web-site.

    Negative harmony in music - Musiz - Music Theory, Harmony, Composition, Lessons, Cheat Sheets


    Negative Harmony Chord Chart


    On the Validity of Negative Harmony
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
    oZZma likes this.
  5. RustyAxe

    RustyAxe

    Jul 8, 2008
    Connecticut
    My reaction to much of what is posted in "General Instruction". :D
     
    Whousedtoplay likes this.
  6. JimK

    JimK

    Dec 12, 1999
    WYTP always gives me a brain ache...
    :)
     
  7. mambo4

    mambo4

    Jun 9, 2006
    Dallas
    My second and third reaction as well.

    Most "modern" harmony strikes me as arbitrary rules to generate a sequence of chords outside of traditional functional harmony.
     
  8. Malcolm35

    Malcolm35

    Aug 7, 2018
    I agree, it is not something I will use in public. But, I do enjoy looking at new (to me) things. I've given this about two hours and told self; "OK, now back to the old tried and true stuff". :)
     
  9. Whousedtoplay

    Whousedtoplay

    May 18, 2013
    TEXAS
    But what would Beato say about that Negative Harmony?

     
  10. skwee

    skwee

    Apr 2, 2010
    Minneapolis
    The thing is, all the chords used in these videos are functional--they are simply more colorful from the compositional side.
     
    Marcus Willett and Whousedtoplay like this.
  11. IamGroot

    IamGroot

    Jan 18, 2018
    Rap has been doing it for decades with NO harmony.
     
    ajkula66 and joebar like this.
  12. Whousedtoplay

    Whousedtoplay

    May 18, 2013
    TEXAS
    P.S. I think I've discovered a very big secret.
    (Just don't tell anyone.)
    Our true goal in life is to get to that HOME.
    Not all people are lucky to reach THE home!


    Malcolm,

    You are not a PRO musician; therefore, you are still ready for any "WOW" moment.
    Let's take an example from the very first (and very easy to understand) video.
    In the example, we see one of the MOST overly-used chord progression, including your favorite Country music.


    C - F - G7 - C.

    m.PNG
    Just imagine, when you propose to "THE house BAND" of THE Home to substitute that G7 to Fmin6 just ONCE in Verse 3 (YES, it should be notated properly as Fmin6 and NOT as Dmin7/b5), and EVERYONE in the band turns their heads as says, "WOW, Malcolm, what a great idea! We did not expect it from you! THANKS."
     
  13. Whousedtoplay

    Whousedtoplay

    May 18, 2013
    TEXAS
    I would agree with you for the following reason.
    From here:
    https://www.quora.com/What-is-negative-harmony-in-music

    A comment by James Kuczero - Profession musician for over 40 years.

    "There is no such thing as “negative harmony”. That would mean you put different notes together, but didn’t make a sound. There is also no “polarity” in music. Music goes in more than two directions.

    In over 40 years in music, this is the very first time I have heard either of these terms applied to music. You can’t just put words together and make it a thing."
     
    Marcus Willett likes this.
  14. Whousedtoplay

    Whousedtoplay

    May 18, 2013
    TEXAS
    N.B. There is a big difference between "Negative Harmony" by Jacob Collier and the twentieth-century Swiss composer Ernst Levy.
    By Ernst Levy.
    Negative harmony part 3: the Levy legacy
    • "Levy names triads by their ‘generators’ rather than their conventional roots. C+ is a C major triad (CEG). Its reflection (FAbC) has the same generator (C) so Levy calls it C-. I have given it its conventional name of F minor, and similarly renamed all the other minor chords."
    ln.PNG
    And the rest of the mode chords
    nl2.PNG

    Now, here is J. Collier's vision of "Negative Harmony".

    "C major and C minor, for example, are now mirror buddies. The axis – the mirror point – is now that famous location, the crack between Eb and E."

    jcnh.PNG

    ax.PNG
     
  15. mambo4

    mambo4

    Jun 9, 2006
    Dallas
    Most videos I have seen on negative harmony are arbitrary about the axis of reflection.
    the first video actually supplies a good reason to choose the axis it does
    (stable notes become stable, active notes become active.)
    and when he gets to the actual results around 8:50, they sound quite pleasant

    It seems like Rick Beato is talking about another thing when describing "negative harmony".
    His C major inverts to C phrygian, not C minor.
     
    Whousedtoplay likes this.
  16. Whousedtoplay

    Whousedtoplay

    May 18, 2013
    TEXAS
    Yes, indeed.

    Rick Beato is talking about Ernst Levy's "negative harmony", which has a different axis - C axis.
    J. Collier has a different axis - Eb/E.
    The approach is, kind of similar but not the contents.
     
    jchrisk1 likes this.
  17. Whousedtoplay

    Whousedtoplay

    May 18, 2013
    TEXAS
    Here is a a good explanation about that "negative harmony" by using Tonnetz.

    Tonnetz as Tonal Lattice.


    Negative Harmony on the Tonnetz.



    P.S. Just remember this:

    Negative Harmony works in relation to a tonal center or key.
    You can do this for any key/tonal center. Just remember that the pivot changes as well.
    So, for example, if you have a chord progression in F major, the pivot would be right in the middle of F and C.
     
    vickerekes likes this.
  18. Whousedtoplay

    Whousedtoplay

    May 18, 2013
    TEXAS
    An example of Negative Harmony "in action".

     
  19. Whousedtoplay

    Whousedtoplay

    May 18, 2013
    TEXAS
    Negative Harmony works in relation to a tonal center or key.

    In C major, we have the following "note substitutions/negative harmony", where
    C becomes G,
    D = F,
    Eb = E, etc...

    (See the diagram below with explanations.)

    m.PNG

    Now, if we have the of F major, then,

    F becomes C (not D as in the key of C)
    A - Ab (not Bb as in the key of C), etc...


    F-neg.PNG

    Download that chromatic circle from here:
    Chromatic circle - Wikipedia
     
  20. Whousedtoplay

    Whousedtoplay

    May 18, 2013
    TEXAS
    Now, let's try to get those "negative notes" in the key of B.

    In this case, B becomes F#,
    C# = E, etc...


    B-neg.PNG

    It's all about that key/Tonal center.

    P.S. It's easy to get that axis after downloading the chromatic circle.
    1. Find the Tonic/the first scale degree.
    2. Count three chromatic notes from your Tonic clockwise.
    3. Mark the space between the 3rd and 4th chromatic notes = it's one point of the axis.

    4. Now, count two chromatic notes from your Tonic counterclockwise.
    5. Mark the space between the 2nd and 3rd notes (counted counterclockwise from your Tonic).
    6. Draw an axis between those two marked points.
    7. Join the opposite notes in order to obtain the "negativity".
     
  21. Primary

    Primary TB Assistant

    Here are some related products that TB members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to TB’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to TB discussions about these products.

     
    Jul 25, 2021

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