How would you write this chord?

Discussion in 'General Instruction [BG]' started by ole Jason, Jul 8, 2003.

  1. spelled ... D Ab C E F

    Obviously a half diminished dominant but how do I deal with the 9 and #9? I would call it D7b59#9 but is that correct? Band in a box wouldn't recognize it as that so that's why I'm asking. A friend suggested D alt, but wouldn't that change how most players would approach it?
  2. Wrong Robot

    Wrong Robot Guest

    Apr 8, 2002
    I don't see two nines in that chord :confused:

    I see
    D(1) Ab(b5) C(b7) E(9) F(3)

    Last I checked F was the 3rd of D

    in this case the F is acting like a b10 looks like. I guess that could be called a #9 but...why?
  3. stuie86


    May 9, 2003
    mckinney, tx

    yes the sad fact is i have no idea what your talking about. while im here would some one send me a PM explaining "actoin" a family freind said i need to get mine fixed for a better tone
  4. Maybe C2345# ??

    C (1) D (2) E(3) F(4) Ab(5#)
  5. moley


    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    Technically speaking, yes, the F would be a b10, because it's an F, not an E#. But, that is always referred to as #9 not b10. Just convention I guess, but chord extensions always seem to be 9, 11, 13. And the 10th is already in the chord in the form of the 3rd.

    That said, this isn't a dominant chord, so it's not a #9 anyway.
  6. moley


    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    Are you sure that D is the root here? Thing is, if it is, then it can't be a dominant chord (unless some other instrument is playing the F#).

    It wouldn't be D7alt because it has the 9th. D7alt would imply b9 or #9 but not 9.

    Given the distinct lack of a major 3rd, but the distinct presence of a minor 3rd, I don't reckon this is a dominant chord :D

    I'm gonna go with Dm9(b5) here. Seems like the obvious answer.
  7. wulf


    Apr 11, 2002
    Oxford, UK
    Dm9(b5) gets my vote as well, based on the clues available.

    To really home in on the definition, you'd also need to consider the context - both 'vertical' (eg. what's the bass playing underneath? what's the melody doing on top?) and 'horizontal' (what comes before and after? what's the overall tonal centre / centres of the piece?).

  8. The first and only thing I would like to know is what key is it in, or what key do you think its in.

    wulf has a point. The chord could be several "things" depending on the tonal center.
  9. moley


    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    I was assuming that D Ab C E F was the complete voicing - i.e. the bass note is a D, and all other instruments/voices have one of those notes.

    If that's not the case, then all bets are off :D
  10. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    Yes - you could think of it as a C chord, with the D as the 9th.


    C11(#5) - wouldn't this be a possibility?

    Bit obscure I suppose?:meh:
  11. moley


    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    Kinda obscure. If you look it as a C chord, then it's augmented, but with an added 9th and 11th. If you fill in the gaps, and add a b7 (Bb), then you've got C11(#5) or C11+. C11 is a dominant chord, you see, and when you view it as a C chord, it doesn't have a 7th, which is the deciding factor here.

    Though, I think different people seem to have different ideas on what an 11 chord should be. Some say it doesn't have a third (so C11 would essentially be Bb/C, which is actually a voicing for Csus). So, in essence, some seem to think C11 is a sus chord.

    Personally, I think it makes much more sense that 11 chords should have a 3rd. It's much more consistent (C7, C9, and C13 all have a third), and - if it doesn't, how do you indicate you want a dominant 7th chord with added 11th? C7(add11) - but it's a little clumsy.

    Anyway, as it stands, as far as I can see, Dm9(b5) is the best option.

    But, if you add a Bb to the bottom, you get Bb9(#11), which is cool.
  12. theydolph

    theydolph Guest

    Oct 26, 2002
    I would call this chord a Dminor-major-dominant-seventh-flat seventh-hold the fifth-flat the fifth-take the fifth to dinner-ninth chord. I actually use this quite often.
    But if you want to take the easy route I would agree with Dm9 b5.
  13. Howard K

    Howard K

    Feb 14, 2002
    It's a special chord inst it, so special it doenst have a name, bless it's little cotton socks

    what colour does it sound like? let's name it after a colour?
  14. Haha it's very 'dreamy' to my ears, Howard.

    Wouldn't Dm9(b5) imply that there should be an Eb instead of E natural? Forgive me if I'm wrong here, I've been taught that 9ths are always minor in a minor chord unless otherwise stated.

    Sorry for the dominant typo :D I'm still new to this jazz stuff.
  15. Richard Lindsey

    Richard Lindsey

    Mar 25, 2000
    Metro NYC
    Well, I'm afraid you've been taught wrong. The only thing that always has to be minor in a minor chord is the 3rd. In practice, 9ths are *never* minor in any chord unless explicitly stated to be so. However, even though the interval from, say, B to a C an octave and a half step up is a minor 9th interval, when it comes to constructing chords, it's usually referred to as a b9 rather than a minor 9. The difficulty is that some of the interval names are also names of chord types.

    So whenever you see a 9 in a chord, that 9 is a major 9 *interval* from the root--even if the chord itself is a minor 9 *chord*. Unless it's labeled as either b9 or #9. Confusing? You bet; hope I haven't made it more so.