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hz/khz, help!

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by flamer, Jul 24, 2003.


  1. flamer

    flamer

    Oct 18, 2002
    swindon, england
    Hi, my names flamer, and i thing i'm remedial in the world of amp specs....

    I know i've asked this kinda thing a few times, but could someone tell me which specs are better for a 15" cab:

    SWR
    100 dB SPL @ 1W1M (-6dB @ 40 Hz and 18KHz)
    ASHDOWN
    SPL: 96dB IW @ 1 mtr Frequency response: 41Hz 4kHz

    see i get the loudness aspect, but i really don't understand whether 4khz or 18khz is better!!

    I promise i won't ask anymore specifications questions after this!

    cheers!
     
  2. wulf

    wulf

    Apr 11, 2002
    Oxford, UK
    Beware of judging soley by the numbers - they fail to quantify everything about the 'sound' of a given cabinet, especially how it will work in relation to your gear and playing style.

    Also, remember that the bass gives out relatively low frequencies. Eg. take the A string... that produces a fundamental of 55Hz. Therefore the octave (eg. 7th fret on the D string) will be 110Hz and the octave above that (14 fret, G string - a reasonably high note for a bassline) will have a fundamental of 220Hz.

    The sound you hear is a mix of the fundamental and a number of harmonic overtones (this ties into how harmonics work). The balance of these is what gives the note it's distinctive timbre and, on a bass, they're starting to drop off in volume by about the fourth or fifth overtone. So, when you play that high A, you hear a mix of:

    220Hz
    440Hz
    660Hz
    880Hz
    1100Hz
    1320Hz (and so on - x1, x2, x3, etc)

    In other words, well below 4000Hz (4kHz), let alone 18kHz). Therefore, the extra headroom might give you a little more 'presence' on the notes but the effect is likely to pretty negligible (although a tweeter, as a second sound source in the cabinet, will have a more audible effect).

    Get the stats for some cabinets that are available locally and then try them to hear what the numbers mean in practise...

    Wulf
     
  3. wulf

    wulf

    Apr 11, 2002
    Oxford, UK
    ps. FWIW, I've got an Ashdown ABM Mini 1x15 cab that I'm very happy with. I couldn't quote you the specs but I like the sound ;)

    Wulf
     
  4. flamer

    flamer

    Oct 18, 2002
    swindon, england
    thanks everyone.

    Hi Wulf, Those specs are from the mini 15 cab, i've been mulling over buying one for weeks now, i've had a play on one, but there's no way of telling how it will perform in the practice room with a noisy rock band (it will be paired with a 210) so it's a bit of a risk, but I need a new 15 in my setup!
     
  5. ESP-LTD

    ESP-LTD

    Sep 9, 2001
    Idaho
    Just to make it more interesting, I would have to say you don't have enough information to make a determination.

    The SWR info tells you that at 40hz, the volume will be 6db lower than it will be at some higher frequency; this is a pretty normal shorthand.

    The Ashdown specs don't say anything concrete at all. Is it 10db down at 41hz? 6db down? Does it make their coffee table shake at 41hz? You really don't know.
     
  6. wulf

    wulf

    Apr 11, 2002
    Oxford, UK
    If it doesn't do the job, you're probably well on your way to premature deafness so you won't have to worry about it much longer anyway :eek:

    Since this is a 'new 15' I presume you had one before. What was that, and what was the problem with it?

    Wulf
     
  7. flamer

    flamer

    Oct 18, 2002
    swindon, england
    really, they're that loud?! I just can't imagine such a small enclosure having much presence, doesn't it go hopping round the practice room due to it's lightness as well?!

    I currently run an abm500 (which i generally set at 12oclock on gain and volume) thru a warwick 210 and a old laney 15, the laney is 250watt, and is quite a big cabinet, it's also pretty hefty, and is impossible to carry down the narrow staircase where i live!

    If you think that ashdown would work in noisy alt.rock scenario then i may well go for it!
     
  8. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    That was my initial reaction too. Frequency "range" tells you nothing about the frequency "response".
     
  9. wulf

    wulf

    Apr 11, 2002
    Oxford, UK
    I've used it in a pretty big hall (normally used as a church and arranged with the stage on the one of the long sides of the rectangle) for a classic rock band, competing against drums and two guitarists each with 100 Fender Twin Reverb amps, with an audience of 100+. It certainly sounded loud enough to me and I didn't get any complaints about being too quiet ...:cool:

    It also had no problems when used in a club environment with my current band, and probably 150+ people in there. When I was in the audience earlier on in the evening, the sound was painfully loud without ear plugs. It did get a DI into the PA that night but I still think it was up to the job.

    Actually, I think both of the cabs you're suggesting would do the job - the main question is which one gives you the kind of sound you're after, which can't easily be answered by looking at numbers on paper. If you haven't got suitable places to preview them in Swindon, then a day trip to London might be worthwhile.

    I know that I'm not alone in being very happy with the Ashdown mini 1x15. What's the SWR cab you're looking at - do any owners have comments on that?

    Wulf
     
  10. flamer

    flamer

    Oct 18, 2002
    swindon, england
    Hey Wulf,
    Thanks for all your help, I think I'm pretty much sold on the mini 15 now, I had a go on one a while back, but it's pretty hard to tell how it's gonna work until i get in front of the heaviest hitting drummer i've ever played with and two feedback obsessed guitarists!!!

    The other option was a workingmans 15 which is underpowered compared to the ashdown.

    I just want a lighter and loud 15 really, but i don't want it jumping all over the floor when i take my gain and volume over half!

    phil.
     
  11. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    My Acme cabs weigh under 50lbs each and move a serious amount of low end and I've never had problems with them jumping about - irregardless of this you're probably best off stacking the cabs which will mean there's plenty of weight holding the 15" down.

    Alex
     
  12. flamer

    flamer

    Oct 18, 2002
    swindon, england
    i would prolly have to put the cabs side by side as the 210 will be a giant in proportion to the little 15! It weighs 46lbs so i guess it shouldn't hop around at high volumes!

    How did you get acme cabs in brighton?!

    p.
     
  13. wulf

    wulf

    Apr 11, 2002
    Oxford, UK
    You could stand the 2x10 upright on the mini 1x15. That should put the top speaker at a good height for you to hear it and, in theory, might give a clearer sound in the room (due to disperson patterns in the horizontal plane).

    Experiment a bit and see how it goes.

    Wulf
     
  14. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    I imported them back in 1999. Even with all the shipping costs etc they still worked out cheaper than Eden or SWR. They were the only Acme cabs in the UK for quite a while but I think a few others may have arrived since then.

    Alex