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I cant afford lessons every week,/books vs. teachers/merged thread

Discussion in 'General Instruction [BG]' started by Obsolex, Nov 28, 2002.

  1. Obsolex

    Obsolex Guest

    Nov 17, 2002
    I cant afford lessons, so i was wondering what books that i should get. i have one that i got 2 years ago when i started by mel bay called "teach yourself the electric bass". but i need to start getting into music theory. like, what brands should i get? i just want something that explains it well, and starts from the very beginning on what its about. i don't even know what books i should get, like scales? arpegios? plz tell me! and what is walking? thanks _-SoTo-_
  2. Obsolex

    Obsolex Guest

    Nov 17, 2002
  3. NioeZero


    Sep 2, 2001
    Thats figgedy phat.
  4. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member In Memoriam

    When you put one foot on front of the other? You didn't know this - must have been running before you could walk!! :D
  5. Obsolex

    Obsolex Guest

    Nov 17, 2002
    if i got a bunch of books like, on a subject, (theory vol1., then vol2. ect...) or anything else, would it be possible for me to learn as much as if i got a teacher, because there are no teachers around here at all :(. but could i make the same progress???
  6. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member In Memoriam

    How many threads have we had on this now? :eek:
  7. ahuh

    I believe that the best way to learn something is to be shown it. I don't think books could compare to someone who you can talk to and ask questions.

    Try a search for more info.
  8. moley


    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    Obsolex... you've gone and posted two threads essentially asking the same question. Why? You've done a similar thing over in Technique, posting several threads asking similar questions - not all of which are even appropriate for the Technique forum (The one about self-taught bass players really belongs in Bassists, for example).

    This is not how we do things at TB! You could have put all your questions about getting lessons, being self-taught, learning from books, improving your technique etc, even which bassists are self taught - all in one thread. This would have been much more convenient for us in helping you, and more convenient for you in getting answers. In fact, this is what I suggest you do.

    Better still, you could do a search first, and find that maybe some of your questions have been answered before...

    Also, make your thread titles more helpful. "ok, i'm hella confused..........", "I DON'T NEED ONE do i?", "i can't do this help me!", "well.....plz answer allz............". For a start, you really don't need all those dots. And, these thread titles really don't tell us anything about the topic of the thread. When you're looking down the list of thread titles, you wanna be given an idea of what each thread is about - so you know if they relate to something you're interested in, or something you are knowledgable about. These titles you've used aren't helpful in this respect. I'm sure some people would ignore these completely if they saw these thread titles.
  9. Teachers are way more expensive than books, and you can't spill coffee on them without getting in trouble :D

    As far as theory goes, I would say books, because then you can spend as much time as you need getting it just right. But if you want instant answers, and don't mind having to sort the wheat from the pornographic chaff, use the internet!

    How do you think the teachers learnt theory? from a teacher? probably not. Grab every opportunity you can to learn something yourself - thats half the fun!!

    Que angry replies from bass teachers...
  10. I taught myself from a couple of books and I've always wished I had gotten a teacher.
    I think your technique really suffers.
  11. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member In Memoriam

    Well I think we should get all this together as it has all been said many times before - but I just wanted to say that I think the above is possibly quite dangerous !!

    You could quite easily get the wrong end of the stick from just books and without somebody to ask and test your understaning, you may not actually "learn" anything!

    You may just labour under a misunderstanding/misapprehension for many years! Whereas a teacher may have explained that same thing, in a manner approriate to you and your stage of learning, in a few minutes!!
  12. wulf


    Apr 11, 2002
    Oxford, UK
    Books and people are both useful teachers - I doubt there are many bassists who've totally ignored either (although not everyone will have paid for tuition, you can't interact with other musicians without many opportunities for learning).

    Don't forget also the valuable lessons that come from experience and diligence (AKA practise). ;)

  13. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member In Memoriam

    I think you have to bear in mind that "instructional" books for bass guitar are a comparativley recent thing - when I started playing bass they just didn't exist. So - I doubt very much that people like Jaco got any of their learning from books.

    The most common way for people to learn bass up until the 1980s was to listen to others, try to play their lines and then to play in bands and get experience like this, through playing and learning from the people you played with - so band leaders would throw out tips and ideas that they wanted implemented.

    So - to take Jaco as an example - he was playing every night - sometimes 3 or 4 sets a night - the bands were his teacher(s).

    I think if you asked any bass player who grew up in the 60s and 70s, then they would never have looked at a book and the internet wasn't an option either!! ;)

    So - when Jaco was touring with Weather Report - all thw bass plyers wanted to catch the shows so they could see what he was doing.

    Norman Watts-Roy mentioned this in interviews - how all the pro bass players were there inteh audience and then trying to put this stuff in their own lines. So he put what he had learned from Jaco, straight into "Hit me with your Rhythm Stick" on Ian Dury and the Blockheads Number 1 UK single!
  14. flacko


    Dec 6, 2001
    Surrey , UK
    What a bass line that is.

    I fancy a go at this.

    Anybody know a source or a publisher I can go to for it ?
  15. I totally agree with this, that players learning today have a much greater range and selection of learning methods at their disposal. This means that we should make the most of them and be thankful!

    Aren't most bass books written by teachers anyway? I'd much rather spend less on a book, that I can return to again and again, for education than an expensive teacher. You gotta respect that teachers, like MacDonalds and Tesco's, are out to get your money. 10 times out of 10 they will tell you to seek tuition and tell you to take more lessons. Respect this fact, then tell them no thanks!!

    Also don't discount your own ability to know what sounds crap and what doesn't. The greatest teacher in this world is yourself, cos he or she knows just where your faults lie, and where to direct your learning.
  16. wulf


    Apr 11, 2002
    Oxford, UK
    I was thinking of 'book' in the widest possible sense - something written down by someone else, so that your learning is helped by them even though you don't interact face to face. That would include magazines, scores, etc and material written for any instrument (or just about music as a whole).

    However, I should also have included performances (live and recorded) on my list of useful teachers ;)

  17. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member In Memoriam

    Well I have to say now that this is absolute rubbish and very offensive to teachers! :mad:

    If they were just in it for the money - I'm sure they could choose far more lucrative careers! :rolleyes:

    I would also say the exact opposite of the last paragraph - you can go along convincing your self quite happily that you're doing well for years, decades - whereas a teacher can show you the one little thing that will improve your playing immensely.

    Small things can be very hard to notice yourself, but can make a huge difference to your playing.

    I have known loads of people who think they are good because they have never been confronted with their own shortcomings - I think basically it is impossible to be truly objective about your self - but a teacher can give you this objective "reality check"!! And help you address the things you need to improve.
  18. flacko


    Dec 6, 2001
    Surrey , UK
    From what I've read in this thread so far I think we are talking about two different subjects ;

    The first is music theory, which your questions above cover. They are not confined to bass guitar and are an abstract idea of what sounds musical either in a melodic sense or (in the case of walking) a rhythmic sense.

    The second is the practical problems of translating these ideas onto a particular instrument.

    I believe you can achieve the first, with perhaps minimal personal teaching, from "books". A good way of testing your ability is to sit an exam : it will test your understanding of musical theory. There are many exams that do this in the UK and I'm sure similar exams are available world-wide.

    Putting these ideas into practice is the second problem and here a teacher is invaluable. You gain the skills quicker, you do not have to re-learn bad techniques (time-consuming, and all too easy to acquire on your own or with books) and most importantly it is the quickest way to enable you to express yourself musically. In addition, if you have the knowledge of musical theory, you are wide open to choose the instrument that best expresses your musical ideas.

    There is a third option, and that stems from adjusting the accepted ideas of musical theory to your own liking, and expressing them through musical composition . Just do not expect anyone to like it whilst you're alive.

    Music theory books have always been available and are useful for any instrument. They are no better or worse than they've always been IMHO.

    The plethora of technical instructional books now available contain "play in the style of ..." content. They will give you the parts of music theory used by different players. Fine. But to put them into practice a teacher will be invaluable.

    In my own experience this has happened but not 10 / 10.

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