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I don't know which way to turn!! (WARNING: Loooooong Post!)

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by JACink, Oct 15, 2013.


  1. JACink

    JACink

    Mar 9, 2011
    Spain
    Before going into the details, I would like to point out that I work in the audio industry, and although I am not an engineer, I am surrounded by sound engineers and high quality audio products, so I understand that there are no free lunches, and that quality is expensive, and if I could afford high end products I definately would do, however...

    For around 15 years I have been doing rap music (vocals) with various groups and solo, and was actually enjoying some mini tours and festivals with a group until 3 years ago when I had to start travelling due to work. Recently this group has released a new CD. I did some colaboration work on this (including bass) and we came up with the idea that although it is not possible for me to rehearse with them to do vocals, it would be nice to do a live instrument show each time I am home (so once or twice every 2 months) with me on bass (which I can practice while away).

    This brings me (finally) to my situation!

    I have never done live shows on bass before, and although my GK MB112 is great for practice and recording, it is not enough for this... or is it?

    We always have PA support (sometimes our own, sometimes provided, depending on the size of the show. We also have our own sound tech, but this doesn't always mean we have subs). My main bass is a 4 string passive, but I have strung another active bass BEAD for a few songs where we need those lower notes, which to be truthful are only a couple, and I have purchased a B3 for effects (which I have yet to try). I also have a pair of Peavey PA speakers, and a QSC amp (300w per channel @ 4 Ohms, 2 Ohm Stable, Bridgeable), which I can use for my own monitors, but they don't go below 75Hz (HPF).

    So, after reading many many posts and threads, I have narrowed it down to the following options.

    1. Keep the GK MB112 for stage monitor, and just go DI (from the B3 or the GK). This is obviously the cheapest solution, but does not guarantee that I will always be able to here myself on stage (sometimes monitors are not good) especially when moving around (this is a hip hop group!!).

    2. Buy my own sub, and crossover, and use the QSC + Peaveys + Sub as my bass rig. This would be great for getting those low bass notes and effects, however my budget will not stretch to a decent sub, so I would be stuck with a cheap sub. My other worry is that the Sub may interfere with the FOH PA.

    3. Buy a 410. Again, my budget will not stretch to a decent 410, so I am around the cheaper end of cabs (used is not an option where I live, as stuff is cheaper new online than used). I would be looking at something like a Kustom DE410, Hartke VX410, Fender Rumble 410, Laney RB410 or maxium and Ashdown MAG410T. However, this may also interfere with the FOH (or at least some people thought it might)

    4. Buy a 115. I am not conviced this would work, especially on the lower notes etc. but I may be wrong! Maybe if I used a crossover and split signal between this and the peaveys, but then I may as well buy a sub.

    5. Build a cab. This would be my preferred option, I would like a 212 with the same drivers that are in my MB112. However, as I said, I am only home for a week or so every 2 months, so by the time I finished...


    So there you have it, so many options, yet I cannot decide where to turn!! Other options, like buying a GK 212 or a fEARful (which I would love) are unfortunately out of my reach :(

    I miss the days when all you had to decide between was whatever the nearest music store had in stock!!

    Sorry for the looooooooooooong post!!

    Please give me your opinions, sush as... stop that rap crap and make proper music!! :D
     
  2. Hate to make it easy for you but just use the DI from the MB112. If you find that you are in need of more "stage" volume, get the combo off the floor and closer to your ears. Your feet are getting more volume than you think ;)

    AND

    stop that rap crap and make proper music. :D
     
  3. What he said. Also, you will find the amp gets a LOT louder if you cut bass and increase mids. You may not love how it sounds but you'll hear yourself.
     
  4. +1
     
  5. Hapa

    Hapa

    Apr 21, 2011
    Tustin, CA
    You are in Spain... I would think that Warwicks distribution would be easiest for bass gear...from your list I would go Ashdown.
    From your current options I would use the PA as your own monitor. You won't be missing that much frequency wise and I can almost guarantee you will be loud enough. Otherwise use the GK as your "preamp" and monitor run the pre out /DI into the PA and get a bass cabinet.
     
  6. I don't get "Rap" all that much. I equate it as poetry set to music somewhat similar to the Hippie days of someone reading a poem whilst a musician played. If the OP likes the genre then so be it!

    I would advocate what Mr B posted. It seems to be a good compromise.
     
  7. JACink

    JACink

    Mar 9, 2011
    Spain
    To be totally honest, I hate 99.9% of Rap!! However, there is some good music out there in the rap/hip hop genre.

    Actually the stuff we do is actually kind of a fusion, we add in some flamenco, reggae, and other stuff (I would post links, but it is all in Spanish, so I would probably make it worse!!).


    Thanks for the advice so far guys, for once the cheapest option seems to be the more popular :D, maybe I will give it while and try a few shows before spending any cash.

    However, @Hapa, this confused me a little:
     
  8. When you get a chance to explore that zoom B3, you may find some stage options with its' 2 - 1/4" and XLR outs. I haven't played with its high/low signal split yet, but the xlr sounds very usable in my headphones. Some of the patches sound like there made for rap and hip hop.
     
  9. I'm a big believer in making what you have on hand work. Comes in very handy when playing live and things go wrong. ;)
     
  10. It's hard to make definite recommendations without knowing what else is going on. The fact you already got warned off a big stage amp says your soundman carries some weight in with the band.

    One would hope you can squeak by with the 112 elevated and aimed across stage for monitor. I can't see you running about too much while singing and playing bass.

    How many are you playing to?

    It sounds like the band PA is your QSC Peavey set?

    What is guitars and keys all running through?
    What is guitars attitude to sound? (does he not have to be the loudest feather plucker in the room always?)
    Drummer has a "volume knob"?

    So yeah, the 112 could work for monitor when you provide Peavey PA with added subwoofers.

    On a different tack completely, you might do ok being your own PA on bass, from the stage. Up to 200 is about the most I want to blast at, and by blast I mean you can easily talk at the back.

    Lots of small bands are doing it that way. Might not be your cup of tea.

    Flipside is a great many small bands have full PA support but no bass in it. Hence you got warned off the 4x10 already.
     
  11. Hapa

    Hapa

    Apr 21, 2011
    Tustin, CA
    What others have said a little better. I meant using the GK as your head unit (eq/levels) off the ground, using the pre out/DI to the Peavey PA's as a sound reinforcement...essentially using the PA as an extension of the combo.
     
  12. JACink

    JACink

    Mar 9, 2011
    Spain
    Thanks for all the input guys!!

    Just to answer a few questions...


    I canĀ“t even see me singing while playing bass, maybe some backing vocals, but for the lead vocals I will not be playing bass!


    This depends on the venue/gig. When I was with these guys some years ago, we did gigs with anything between 100 and 1000 people (we even did a 10.000 person festival once :bassist:) and some tv shows etc. However, usually if it is over 150 people, then FOH PA is guaranteed (or at least it was when I used to be in the band!)

    No the peavey and QSC is my own stuff, the band has their own PA (approx 5000W).

    The keyboard player is also the guitarist, we only use guitar in the flamenco fusion stuff, and this is a Spanish guitar. He is made to play with a Spanish guitar with a pickup (much to his dismay) and this goes to the PA. The keyboards also go to PA.

    The guitarist has an unbeleivable ear for sound, and knows when he sounds good or not. However, he is not technical at all (he can't read, and not just music), and has never betrayed himself as the most important in the group.

    Yes. The drummer uses an electronic drum kit, except when sharing a stage with other groups, then usually this is over the 150 person mark, and gets mic'ed and put through the PA.

    Usually, if it is less than 150 people, we supply our own PA, which is around 5000W, with a monitor for DJ, monitor for guitarist/keyboard player, headphones for drummer, and a couple of monitors for vocals. However, when the number is over 150, the we depend on whatever is provided. When we do club type venues, we usually use the clubs sound system at a lower volume, and add our own PA to increase the sound coming from the stage.



    I am thinking of sticking with the GK MB112, and placing one of my peaveys on top with all the feeds to it (including bass) as a monitor. I also have a powered mixer, which I could use instead of the QSC, and maybe drop the volume on my own mic to save us from feedback issues.


    Thanks again guys!!!
     
  13. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    That's what I'd probably do, maybe getting an extension cab later on, not for extra volume, but just because it sounds better than a single 112 cab.
     
  14. Alex1984

    Alex1984

    Jan 16, 2010
    Vancouver
    Yeah, I don't get modern rap at all. I believe keeping the MB112 + DI is the best way to go in your case though.
     
  15. You're covered with the electric drums, just with the combo. You could bring the extra Peavey monitor for everything else but shouldn't be needed.

    Big shared gigs you could bring the MB and hope to cadge someone else's rig. You don't want to be the only guy with a bass amp to show up though!

    I don't think it would be practical to bring your extra monitor rig to those gigs, way too much setup. If just running bass through it then okay, it's not so bad. Test it out. Somehow I doubt the sound will be all that great, I'd be more inclined to elevate the 112 and make the drummer keep it down if rest of band can't hear you, while saving for the GK matching extension cab.
     
  16. Blankandson

    Blankandson Supporting Member

    Oct 20, 2010
    Gallatin, Tennessee
    I'm not going to trash rap because I have been known to take part in pipe organ recitals where I play the foot pedal notes on my bass. Classical stuff. Probably not too many TBers like that either.
     
  17. JACink

    JACink

    Mar 9, 2011
    Spain
    Just to give you all an update...

    We had a few rehearsals last week, and I found that using the MB with one Peavey on top was plenty for stage volume.

    I used the MB for bass, and the Peavey as a monitor for everything else, which I stood on top of the MB.

    To be truthful, we only did some rehearsals with around 1000W of PA, but I think that this set up will work ok even when using the full PA for shows.

    Thanks for all the help guys!!
     
  18. Awesome! It's fun to spend but more satisfying to not have to ;).
     
  19. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    Most folks who are realistic about onstage SPL's and stuff have similar findings. That said, I still like the sound of the big cabs better.
     

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