So with my new daughter here I figured it was time to go the minivan route. I look in the paper and see a new 2004 Montana: MSRP 28,000. On sale for 17,000 with GM employee discount. I'm not an employee but the other cars mentioned had employee and non employee prices. The difference was around 3,000. So I figured around 20ish. I go in and talk to the "salesmen". I show him the ad, he says " let me go talk to the finance manager. Comes back and tells me $399 a month for payments. As I scrape my jaw off the floor I asked why so much, he said it was the non employee price. So I ask him all the other cars the difference was only around 2-3000. I ask what was my selling price? He says " let me ask the finance manager what your price was". He comes back and says 27,500! I say" 10,000 difference!" He says "I can bring out the book and show you the prices". I just got up and walked away. Whew!!!Thanks for allowing me to vent!