I need a lighter rig (Story & Q's re: Eden, QSC, Epifani, Avatar)

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by nspark, Jun 2, 2005.

  1. This really breaks my heart to say this, but I think I need to get rid of my Eden Metro. I really love the amp. The sound is (nearly) all I want it to be. I say nearly because, since getting a 5-string, I do notice that it could handle the Low-B a little better. The B through my friend's Peavey BAM210 is tight and punchy as hell, so, I think it's probably the amp.

    Still, that's not my issue. My issue is that just yesterday, I took a short fall at the end of the stairs of my apartment complex (I live on the second floor) and now I have two bruised, skinned knees and a jaw that hurts like hell (not to mention the tip of my jaw is skinned raw). The amp, miraculously, worked fine for the gig and sounded great as usual.

    I love the warm, fat, punch tone I get from my Eden, but 80 lbs is just too much to be lugging up and down stairs once or twice a week. I can't afford to have this happen again and I'm lucky that (1) I'm not hurt any worse and (2) the amp works just fine.

    So, I've decided that I need a lighter rig. I won't be able to make any purchases until September or October, but I would like to plan out what purchases I should really be going for.

    My first thought was to go with a totally separated rig:
    -Eden Navigator Preamp
    -QSC PLX1202
    -Epifani UL210
    However, this would cost me a lot. I don't need a lot of power, but I like to have the flexibility to play larger gigs (and hopefully not to have to upgrade everything later). About the QSC (general amp question, really), is it safe for the amp to only run one channel (not bridged) at a time?

    My second thought was:
    -Eden WT550
    -Epifani UL210
    This would cost me significantly less.

    The other thought was that Avatar has a B210 NEO cab that is close to the Epifani UL210 in weight. In a way, it seems unfair to compare a $250 cab to a $1000 cabinet, but any comparisons of these two specific cabs would really be appreciated. The Avatars come with a two-week guarantee, so this may be an option to look into since I would have no other way of trying this cab.

    The third (and strangest) option would be to separate the Metro head from my Eden Metro combo and get a lightweight cab to go with that. It would all but kill the resale value, but who knows, it's always a possibility.

    So, I'm looking for input between my three options and whatever other suggestions any of you may have. If you've made it to the end of this post, I appreciate it that you read it all. Also, if there are any other suggestions for lightweight 2x10 cabs (~40 lbs for a 2x10), I'd appreciate it.

  2. Eric Moesle

    Eric Moesle Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Columbus OH
    Its perfectly fine to run one channel of a PLX only. Just keep the gain knob on the second channel turned down. You might even want to consider running it in bridged mode just for the extra headroom. That's what I'd do.

    The Nav is a great preamp, lots of tone shaping ability, and the great Eden tone.
  3. pickles

    pickles Supporting Member

    Mar 23, 2000
    Ventura, CA
    Your second thought sounds like the better call for sure! If you want small and light, don't go with a rack setup, and you already know you like the Eden sound.
  4. The Eden550 EpiUL combo will sound awesome.... the Epi cabs are a little less 'mid heavy' versus the XLT line (IMO), so you might want to try one to make sure you like it (duh!). My suggestion would be to go with the Epi310UL. It's still very light and small (only about 6 pounds or so heavier than the 210), but it puts out A LOT more sound. It's only a little more money. I had the 210 and replaced it with the 310UL.... big difference. The other advantage to the 310 is that it sits up high enough that you can put castors on it and just put that 550 on top and wheel it in.... no matter how light a cab is... it's always easier to wheel it than carry it.
  5. Keep the metro get Marc Serio at Dr. Bass to build you a 2-10 "airhead" cab or a 1-12 airhead cab. You can always reinstal the head in the metro combo for resale. You might end up spending less then you thought. Just slide that eden head into the new cab which can be made with a 2 or 3 space rack space.
  6. silky smoove

    silky smoove Supporting Member

    May 19, 2004
    Seattle, WA
    Have you considered Schroeder? The 1210 and the 1212 are both only about 47 pounds and VERY compact. On top of that, by all accounts, they are quite loud.
  7. I have a new Schroeder 1210. It sounds great, but it's not light... almost twice as heavy as the Epi210 and heavier than the 310UL.
  8. silky smoove

    silky smoove Supporting Member

    May 19, 2004
    Seattle, WA
    After dealing with a 110 pound cabinet for the last two years, a 47 pound unit seems like a featherweight to me :)
  9. I hear you there! It's funny how everything is relative. The Epi Neo's are so light that everything else seems heavy now, even stuff that is actually light relative to most other cabs!
  10. vision

    vision It's all about the groove!

    Feb 25, 2005
    Ann Arbor, MI
    with the wt550 you'll get the eden sound that you know and love, in a much smaller and lighter package than a 4 space rack. if you use the navigator and plx setup, you'll have to make 2 trips down the stairs (one trip would be worse than the metro you're using now.) but you can just throw the 550 on top of the 210 cab and make one trip.

    also, the 550 will give you 600 watts plus safely at 2 ohms, so you can always upgrade later with another 4 ohm cab, since you were concerned with big gig upgradability...
  11. silky smoove

    silky smoove Supporting Member

    May 19, 2004
    Seattle, WA
    Weight is VERY relative. I picked up one of the Avatar 410's (not the neo, but unsure if it was the delta or the kappa pro) but I thought it was quite light relative to what I'm used to dealing with.
  12. peabody

    peabody Supporting Member

    Oct 31, 2002
    La Crosse, WI
    I made the same realization about my Eden Metro...even though I didn't have to fall down the steps to realize it. I traded my Metro in for a Mesa Walkabout Scout and I must say I am completely happy. The Walkabout sounds better than my Metro did and because the Walkabout head pops out of the cab, you can use it on top of other cabs for bigger venues. And at around 50 lbs, it is very easy to haul around.
  13. 4Mal

    4Mal Supporting Member

    Jun 2, 2002
    Columbia River Gorge
    Heads I'm not sure about. I'm not a huge Eden fan. Cab's - have you thought about Bag End ? My D-10 XD is pretty impressive for a small cab. It probably isn't as light as some others but it get's pretty darned loud and goes ridiculously deep for it's size. I'm a 4 banger guy for the most part so I haven't wailed on it with a 5 string. I have run my Poly-800 through it though and it does get down there ... It is a 4 ohm cab and I'm running it with 475 clean Crown watts.
  14. thejohnkim


    Sep 30, 2003
    going for a rack rig with pre+ power even with lightweight components can still be pretty heavy (~40+lbs) because a poweramp will be ~20lbs, the rack itself ~10lbs, preamp + cords can reach 10lbs easily esp if you put in even a small surge protector for consolidation.

    Some of the lightweight heads under 35lbs on the market can feel a lot less heavy and be a lot more portable than a rack rig.

    of course that didnt stop me from building a big 45lb 4 space rack. but just wanted to point out that 'light racks' are still only comparable to the heavier heads (unless you go stewart 1.2 + pre in a rack bag)
  15. jokerjkny


    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    woah man, glad you're ok after your fall! lord knows i've taken a few tumbles, myself.

    but i vote for the WT550 / Epi UL210 route. its plenty lighter than most anything you'll ever use, and best of all, you'll get an even better low B response than your Metro combo. my old UL210 had a killer low B response, and yes, this coming from a self proclaimed Acme freak.

    also, at first blush, you might find the sound not as razor sharp or as cutting as the speakers in the Eden cab, but that's cause i dont any cab is as cutting as the Edens. still, the Epi cab is a different sound that's more hifi, airy, and sweeter.

    but the great thing about the WT550 is a super versatile EQ section, and you should find a sound you want in a jiff.

    IMHO, you got the makings of a terrific little rig.

    but, if you were gonna add on another cab to your metro, then IMHO, get the UL310. slams out TONS of volume, moreso than a few 4x10's i've used, and yet is small compact, and handles a Low B like gangbusters.
  16. Wow guys! A ton of replies in just three hours! Thanks for all the suggestions!

    Thanks. I figured as much, but I just wanted to make sure. The biggest draw of the PLX is that I can use a single unbridged channel if I want just a little power and two channels (or the two bridged) if I want a lot of power. Even the "lightest" PLX is pretty darn powerful.

    I'm looking into it and you're certainly right. It's 9 lbs. heavier (not a big deal) and about $200 more expensive, but can handle more power. The only difference is that I could get the UL210 as an 8-ohm cab, which I think would give me a bit more flexibility. It's just another option to consider, really, and I appreciate the suggestion.

    No, but that's just because I had never really heard of them outside of the ad that I see to the left of the text box I'm writing in. I'll check them out and see what options they provide. Thanks!

    I agree that a small head like the WT550 would be significantly lighter and easier to transport than a 4-rack rig. In all honesty, though, I don't mind carrying heavy things. It was the combination of heaviness, bulk, and stairs that kinda did me in. I'm a young guy (20) and can carry heavy things no problem. It's just the bulk and weight of the Metro that makes it inconvenient. Carrying 40-50 lbs per trip in two trips is much better than 80+ lbs in one trip.
  17. Okay, I think I have to naturally take this back. I can usually carry things without problem. As this thread shows, some things do give me problems.

    I have to say that I'm most interested in the WP100 + PLX + Epifani UL210 or UL310. I think it gives me the most flexibility, tons of power, and should give me the tone I want, however, it would be a lot of money and I'm going to have to consider it all.

    Also, anyone have any experience with the Avatar B210 NEO cabs? How would you describe the sound, since I can't really try it ahead of time?

    I've also heard of Low Down Sound's custom cabinets here on TB. I hear they're excellent cabs at very reasonable prices. I'll probably look into that too.
  18. TheChariot


    Jul 6, 2004
    Boston, MA
    I'm all for option #2 if it suits you. If Eden is truly your sound then the WT550 should replace the amp section of the Metro easily.

    However, I wouldnt go with a 210 cab if you just had a slight discrepancy with your Low B. I'm not sure how the UL210 or UL310 puts out a Low B really... so someone else can elaborate on that.... but what I CAN tell you is that a Schroeder 1210 would make that Low B something to be proud of for sure. It only weighs about 47lbs or so, and can be had for a little more then $700. That would be my first target, even though Epifani makes amazing equipment. To me, it just feels like the addition of that 12" speaker would give you more of a clean B. Just a thought...
  19. Well, the Low B is certainly important to me. Fortunately, I live within two-hours driving distance of Bass Central, so I'll be more than able to check out the Epifani UL cabs (if I think I'll go that route). I can say from personal experience that there certainly are 2x10 cabs that can handle Low B's just fine. My friend's Peavey BAM210 has an exceptionally tight, punch B-string that doesn't lack any lows. He was absolutely stunned when he first played it and that was one of the biggest factors in him getting it.
  20. If you like Eden, I would suggest the new WT 800B and the 210XST at 4 ohm....This is a killer rig and it will provide you the flexibility (and the reduced weight!) your looking for. For bigger shows you could eventually get 1 (or 2) 8 ohm 410's (I suggest the 410XST)....That would send you over the edge....Just my opinion!