I need Dim scale help!

I don't know if this helps but here's an interesting relating article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octatonic_scale

 

Diminished scale is another of the symmetric scales. There is one true diminished scale the whole-half. The half-whole is what Jazz players discovered if they shift the scale to half-whole it work for altered dominant's (b9, #9, b5, b13). John Scofield uses diminished quite a bit for comp'ing and solo lines.

 

How should you use them? When should you use them?

It all comes down to what you hear as sounding best with what you want. Each dim scale offers you a different sound. But, of course, in order to know when and how...you have to be familiar with the "sound" of each scale.

Good luck.

 

There is ONE diminished scale which is a symetric 8 notes scale with W-H-W-H- etc.
The other form is the inversion of it H-W-H-W etc...

Because it is a symetric shape each scale can fit 4 differents roots based on the diminished arpeggio C-Eb-F#-A. So there are only three scales to cover the twelve tones C-C#-D.

The real diminished scale is use on diminished chords like this Co7 or C dim7.

The other form H-W is use on dominant that often resolve on the I major. It adds a lot of color by adding the two altered 9 an the #11 and the 13 stays major. Because it is symetric you can shift it by minor thirds so on G7 you can use the diminished H-W of G-Bb-C#-E.

Actually we are talking about the same diminished scale W-H that can start on Ab-B-D-F. It is just a matter of preference.

There are a lot of symetric patterns based on that scale. You can find some on your own.

The half-diminished has nothing to do with the diminished scale or chord. It is the 7th mode of the major scale call Locrian which fits xmin7(b5) or xø7 (same chord,differents symbols).

I hope this makes sense in writing like this,

Sly

 

Sure you can use it over a regular dominant chord if you want a altered sound. If you feel the song/change needs an altered sound use half-whole diminished.

Whole-half would be used over a true diminished chord, both are symmetric.

Locrian is a mode of the major scale and isn't a symmetric scale. Write the notes of each out and compare, that is the best way to learn.

Half diminished is a chord and Locrian or Locrian #9 are the common scales to use over it. Again write out the notes of a Bmi7b5 (half diminished) chord and compare to a B Locrian mode.

To all with questions like this taking the time to write out the scale then the related chord really helps things fall in place. Then put some seat time in playing them to get the sounds in your ear. Theory needs to be seen as well as heard.

And lets not have a endless thread on the name Locrian #9, call it what you want. It really doesn't matter as long as you know what it is.