Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by BoB/335, Aug 17, 2003.

  1. Hello to everyone here!

    My son has a new GK800RB head and WAS using these 2-15" JBL 2205H speakers that I've had laying around here for 20+ years. We put them in a home made cab that my dad made 30+ years ago. This rig was sounding fine until each speaker blew a week apart from each other. As far as I remember these speakers were 200 watts apiece at 8 ohms. They want $156.00 each to repair. I think it might be time to get something new in a REAL bass cab for him. This amp has 2 sections. 100 watt @ 8ohms (60 watts @ 16 ohms) & 300 watt @ 4ohms (200 watts @ 8ohms). I've been looking at the Avatar speakers at the suggestion of others and seems my best bet for the dollar.

    Question: What combination of speakers would you get? I was thinking 2-10's and 1-15" in 2 separate cabs. I would have thought both 8 ohms and use it on the 300 watt section at 4 ohms and leave the 100 wat section for maybe some time in the future. That way he could always get a second 15" @ 8 ohms and put the 2-10" cab on the 100 watt section. Dave at Avatar suggests getting a 1-15" @ 4 ohms for the 300 watt section and a 2-10" cab for the 100 watt section. That would work great because my son would be using the entire wattage of the amp BUT it would limit him to add another cab in the future on the 300 watt section. THIS AMP DOES NOT GO TO 2 OHMS!

    Sorry for the long post. I'm a stickler for details and didn't want to leave anything out.

    So I need suggestions and THANKS!

  2. CaracasBass


    Jun 16, 2001
    Madrid, Spain
    Hello BoB and welcome to TB!!!!!!

    Well, I´ve never had an 800RB but, I,ve gig and rehears with ´em a lot, they sound great and that Bi-amp feature rules, so, I´ll get a 4x10 @ 8 ohms and 1x15 @ 4 ohms, that should make a lot of volume, enough for playing mid-sized venues, I think, and maybe he won´t have to get another cab in some time... also, it will allow him to play smaller gigs using just one cab.

    enjoy your hunt.

  3. Mcrelly


    Jun 16, 2003
    Minnesota, USA
    I like the 210 and the 15 idea. if you stick with 8 ohms you can do what you were thinking as far as adding another 15 later. using 4ohms adds alittle more volume, i'm not sure how much. you have to decide flexibility? or max volume. I think its good to have a 210 around for smaller places to play so he won't always feel obligated to haul the 15 everywhere.

    p.s. that's a big rig if he will have 2-15s and a 210. another option replace the JBLs try http://editweb.iglou.com/eminence/eminence/pages/products02/speakpro/main15sppro.htm
  4. lo-freq

    lo-freq aka UFO

    Jan 19, 2003
    The Republic of Texas
    I would suggest the B212 (w/delta's) and the B210.

    I think you could get better sound volume and clarity if you biamp. If the lower powered side can do 4 ohm, get both cabs in 4 ohm version, if not, 4 ohm B212 & run it off the higher powered side for the low end and 8 ohm B210 off the other for highs.

    If you drive the B210 hard enough running full range, it could do some farting on low notes (if you never plan on running a 5 string bass (BEADG) into it, then you probably won't run into the farting problem).
  5. CaracasBass


    Jun 16, 2001
    Madrid, Spain
    Where can I find any info about Avatar on the internet???
  6. lo-freq

    lo-freq aka UFO

    Jan 19, 2003
    The Republic of Texas
    Avatar's website.
  7. So a lot of imput but not a lot of agreement here. I appreciate all the replys. Maybe some more info would help. My son is just about 16 yrs. old, plays an Ibanez Soundgear1200, and plays emo-core (whatever that means/ they think it's music)(a bunch of screeming stuff). I get out to some Open Blues Jams occassionally and I seem to think that a 2-10" & a 1-15" is the way to go. I actually talked him into the 800RB over the 1001RB because I thought the 800 had more power to bi-amp on the high side. And 50 watt would only be good for a horn which I thought most don't like. It seems most DON'T bi-amp these days, but what do I know. I feel I should have push him for more watts now. I thought this 800RB would/could last a lifetime. I think the 2-10/1-15 setup is the way to go. Just can't decide whether to gwt the 15 in 4 or 8 ohms. The 100 watt section is 8 ohm or higher. It WILL NOT accomodate 4 ohms. Anyone else suggest 2-12's and 2-10's?

  8. lo-freq

    lo-freq aka UFO

    Jan 19, 2003
    The Republic of Texas
    Either 1x15 or 2x12 would work fine.

    The Avatar B115 handles 600W.

    The B212 handles 1000W and has more surface area.

    If you or your son ever decided they needed more power in the future, you're already set on the cab end of things.

    If you do a search for "Avatar B212 B210" you will find a fair number of users own this setup and recommend them highly.

    You could also look for used speaker cabs such as Mesa, Eden, Ampeg, etc. (TB FS section or Ebay or www.bassgear.com).
  9. Saetia


    Mar 27, 2003
    I would say go with the 2x12 and the 2x10, I have been playing 12's for some time now and they seem to handle the lows better then a 15 and are punchier(I'm not saying that goes for all 15's, just saying it is for most, especially in the price range) I too play in an emocore band (also hardcore and a jazz combo) and I use a variety of different cabs but my favorite is the music man hd-212. 12's in my eyes are just a much more accomedating speaker. Well hope I helped and reading over my post I see that it is jumbled sorry
  10. Yeah BUT how much wattage do you need to power a 1000 watt 2-12 cab AND a 750 watt 2-10 cab? Can a 300 watt amp move these speakers efficiently????
  11. CaracasBass


    Jun 16, 2001
    Madrid, Spain
  12. lo-freq

    lo-freq aka UFO

    Jan 19, 2003
    The Republic of Texas
    I recommend you give Dave a call at 208.762.5251, he's a nice guy to chat with and very straight forward.

    [I asked him in a email about this very question, but have since deleted it.]

    bgavin estimates the B212 Delta at 97dB sensitivity (@ 1W @ 1m), that's approximately 121dB @ 256W @ 1m, which should be fine with 300W (especially while running another 2x10 w/ 100W, Dave could help you with biamp freq. X-over suggestions as well to get the best bang for your setup).
  13. Steve


    Aug 10, 2001
    Take the jbl's, get them reconed and put them in the proper sized cabinet. If the reconer you use is an authorized JBL repair center he has a huge book with the dimensions of everything JBL builds.

    You may also be able to dig that info up on the JBL website which is quite extensive.

    Years ago I had the use of a couple of 2205's in very simple JBL boxes that to this day are still the cabs I judge all single 15 boxes against.

    They just kicked maximum butt with an 800rb head that I was using at the time.

    The 800rb/ jbl rig may not be state of the art and all shiney and new but it will be an all pro, no excuses rig.

    Remember, when JBL rates a speaker they rate it continuos sine wave at the resonant frequency. Thats about as much abuse as you can put on a speaker and I know of no other manufacturer that rates like that.
  14. ok BUT They want $156.00 to repair the JBL's. For the same money I can get newer technology with an Avatar 2-12" cab rated @ 1000 watts. I wish the JBL's were cheaper to repair. BUT then I would eventually have to get a real cabinet too. It just doesn't seem cost effective to repair the JBL's.
  15. Steve


    Aug 10, 2001
    You're right about the cost but...
    1.Assuming the recone cost is using genuine JBL parts and not an aftermarket company such as waldom (which ain't bad) $156.oo is a pretty good deal. You should have no problem selling them for that in a worst case senario.

    2. Don't get caught up in a spec. contest that is IMHO the road to damnation. Two twelve inch speakers being able to eat 1000 watts is absolutey absurd. Maybe at an optimum frequency for a few seconds but hit a good low frequency long enough to heat those voice coils and if they survive the gig I'll eat my hat.

    In any case I'd stay away from the whole Bi-amp thing. It's a pain, it doesn't generate any more volume and you really need to know what your doing as far as power and where you cross over the cabs.

    It's not a rig for a 16 year old to learn on. IMHO
  16. bikertrash82

    I appreciate your imput and your concern with people's obsession with wattage. My guitar is a 1968 Gibson ES335 of which I am the original owner of, so I've been around this for a bit. I'm just not real active out there right now so I don't have much imput besides the forums for info on bass equipment. Also I could use a younger perspective anyhow. Some of the Open Blues Jams I attend have some monster house bassists who use 5 string basses and are using a 2-10" cab. One guy in particular is feeding a 2-10" cab with 1200 watts and doesn't seem to have a problem with the low notes. As far as bi-amping goes, I've been advised to NOT use that but this 800RB can be set for "Full Range" for both amp sections. It would seem like we're not making the most of this amp by not using the 100 watt section. It should have been set up to combine the 2 somehow but it WARNS against doing that. As far as the JBL's, even if I recone them to spec and build my own cabs it will still cost me more than a new Avatar cab of which he will NEVER outgrow even if he wants to go the 1200 wattage at some point. I just try to cover all the basses.:)
  17. lo-freq

    lo-freq aka UFO

    Jan 19, 2003
    The Republic of Texas
    I started a new thread that is linked to this one to see if there is any input from Avatar owners out there.

    I have no vested interest in what type of cabs you buy, but I have followed a lot of discussions around TB and as far as bang for the buck for new cabinets, Avatars seem to be the cab of choice.

    As I suggested earlier, very good bang for the buck can also be found in second hand equipment such as Aguilar, Eden, Mesa Boogie, Ampeg, SWR, Bag End, Epifani, Euphonic Audio (EA), etc. There's some stuff out there that has barely been used that can be had at a very good price.

    For instance, the Bag End S15-D are pretty small, portable, and fairly efficient which would be good with 300W to work with. A pair of them could probably be found 2nd hand for about $600 and would seriously be kicking. Same thing for the Aguilar GS112's (the BE's have more midrange punch & the Ag's have more low end power (go figure)).

    bikertrash82 is correct in suggesting that spec's don't tell the whole story, but the spec's for the Avatar's are based on Eminence's spec's which are drivers used by scores of other MI manufactures.

    Bag End's spec's are so conservative, the spec's themselves are not very impressive, but once you hear their cabs, you will be impressed.

    Keep your options open, don't get rushed into anything, and good luck.
  18. sfbass


    Jun 25, 2003
    San Francisco, CA
    I've been using an 800RB for the past two years with no problems. I had an SWR 4x10 that sounded graet, then two Aguilar 1x12s, and now two Epifani 1x10s (continual downsizing was simply due to my bad back).

    I have always run the GK at a 4-ohm load and only used the low 300 watt outputs. I have no idea how much volume your son might need but I can't imagine that a 4x10 or even two quality 1x12s like the Aguilars I had couldn't handle it.
  19. So if I get 1-15 and 2-10's should I get the 15 at 4ohms and the 2-10's @ 8ohm (the 100 watt section of the 800RB is ONLY at 8ohms) OR should I get both cabs at 8ohms and only use the 300 watt section @ 4ohms?
  20. I'd say get them both 8 ohms so that if he upgrades his amp in the future, he doesn't have to worry whether or not it can push 2 ohms... or is it 2.67? Oh well, it doesn't matter. Just go fer 8 ohms ;).