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I need new speaker to Marshall JCM 800 Bass Series 1510 / 4x10

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by ventus, Jun 29, 2014.


  1. ventus

    ventus

    May 13, 2013
    Sweden
    Bass cabinet is original 200w and 8 ohms. Dimensions of the cabinet are 75x75x45cm. It is not a sealed cabinet. I wonder if it is possible to have in the cabinet speakers deliver around 400-500w? :-/ What speakers are good, Celestion or Eminence? I know nothing about this, gladly recommend speakers that fit.

    Not my cabinet in the picture but I have the same:
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Marshall-...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
     
  2. basscooker

    basscooker Commercial User

    Apr 11, 2010
    cincy ky
    Owner, ChopShopAmps
    The best suggestion I have is to replace with new original speakers.
    If this is a vented cabinet, anything else is a gamble. It may improve, it may make it worse.
    Download WinISD and see if something you have available to you might work well, but measure the INTERNAL area of the box as well as any port length and diameters. Bass cabs aren't necessarily very forgiving when it comes to swapping speakers. To work well, the box is designed around the chosen driver, meaning its dimensions and specific port size were determined based on the speakers that Marshall chose for it.
     
  3. Hi.

    For the best bang on the krone, +1 for the WinISD suggestion above.

    Judging by the pic on this forum:
    http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...marshall-bass-amps-marshalls-used-bass-3.html
    Your cab originally sported G10S-50 Celestions.
    IMLE nice for guitar, not so much for bass.

    The cab seems to be dimensionally the same box as the 412 cabs, and that'll work in Your favour temendously.
    The IBS series "normal sized" 410's have not enough internal volume for good replacement drivers.
    The 4 baffle ports are less than optimal, but an industry standard in cost cutting.

    The (discontinued?) Celestion BL10-100's they were blowing out for 16€/piece on Thomann for example could be a nice "throw-in-and-hope-for-the-best" solution on a budget.

    Speaking about the budget, what's Yours?


    Since the speakers share the same space, in order to get predictable results and good performance, all four speakers have to be of the same kind.
    Replace only one or a two, and You'll blow something up when that need for cranking up arises.

    Regards
    Sam
     
  4. Hi.

    Usually, I'd agree with You, but it's Marshall amplification we're talking about here ;).

    The box dimension were chosen for the most economical use of a standard (back then) plywood sheet.
    That's a documented fact.

    The diameter of the baffle port cut-outs was probably chosen to be the same as some other hole Marshall uses in their products to reduce the (re-)tooling costs.
    That's a wild, not entirely uneducated guess :).

    Regards
    Sam
     
  5. basscooker

    basscooker Commercial User

    Apr 11, 2010
    cincy ky
    Owner, ChopShopAmps
    I have to agree with you on that point. If there were ever a brand where you could ignore the T/S stuff with bass cabs and maybe even improve performance it would be Marshall. I would be curious, though, if by the time the IBS line hit, they payed more attention to the science. Likely not, since, as you said, the dimensions still seem on par with the guitar cabs.
     
  6. Hi.

    I have never understood why it is so either.

    The first Marshalls were designed for Jim's drummer clientels bassplayers.
    Sure, he copied what could be considered as the worst among the famous bass amps, but at that time it was the thing to copy because the poor availability and high price of Fender products set the demand.

    Sure, it was guitarists who made the Marshall brand what it is today, but plenty of those guitarists preferred the "bass" cabs over the guitar ones.

    And still, they haven't quite got it right.
    To this day as far as I'm concerned.


    For me that's a real shame as well.

    I'm a 80's hair metal teen, and Marshall was the dream.
    The JCM 800 412 + 215 below a JMP1959 was my dream come true until the amp got stolen not long after I got the rig together.
    That rig was pretty damn loud and somewhat deep, thanks to the deeper than standard box 215, but a major PITA to move and not really that efficient.
    A pair of TL606's could've outperform those cabs with ease.


    One of the problems could've been Celestion.
    Their drivers do work well enough in those small boxes, and for some reason Celestion has AFAIK been the only standard speaker for anything Marshall.

    The problem arises if the user wants to use the same speaker size and compliment but upgrade for something more efficient, the box becomes way too small for good frequency response.

    Everyone knows about the EV's in Harris's cabs, but there has been plenty of others who have had special drivers and unorthodox (for Marshall anyway) speaker configurations in those classic looking cabs.

    Celestion isn't known for producing great sounding or great power handling bass speakers either ;).
    In the past at least.

    Regards
    Sam
     
  7. ventus

    ventus

    May 13, 2013
    Sweden
    I have approx 300-350Euro to buy 4pcs speakers for. The worst is that I do not know anything about bass cabinets :)
     
  8. Hi.

    :)

    Nice to see a reasonable budget for a change, there's plenty of popular drivers in that price range.

    If You choose Eminence, you won't have to, since they publish cabinet suggestions with graphs for the currently available drivers on their web site.

    With a quick glance, the BP102 http://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=Legend_BP102 looks like a reasonable candidate.
    á 79€ at Thomann.


    There is also a lot of knowledgeable professional bass cab designers and builders (as well as us hobbyists) here at TalkBass who can help with the one thing the modeling won't tell, the tone of the cab.

    First You have to give us the exact internal measurements of the cab though, and the diameter of the baffle ports.

    (It's been well over a decade since I last opened a Marshall cab, but I roughly calculated the internal volume to be a hair over 200l and the "ports" look suspiciously like the round recessed jack housing cutout that was something like 85mm in diameter.)

    Regards
    Sam
     
  9. ventus

    ventus

    May 13, 2013
    Sweden
    The ports are approximately 9cm and 75x75x45cm
     

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