Ibanez Promethean P5110 speaker upgrade

[StraightSix]

I have one of these ace little 110 combos and I use it with a Barefaced Midget (112) extension cab.

I am finding that if I need a bit more of a volume push for bigger gigs, the 10" driver in the combo seems to be running out of steam.

I have found the spec on the original driver and the Xmax is only 2mm whereas the Xmax on the 12" driver in the Midget is 6.2mm.

I am considering trying a better 10" driver in the Promethean combo but I have never used WinISD so I'm in the dark when it comes to choosing a suitable replacement.

One I've been looking at is the FaitalPro 10PR300 which has a good spec on paper.

Has anyone upgraded their Promethean 110 combo driver...?

 

[m2466d]

I'll be interested to follow how it turns out if you do end up changing speakers ( I have the same amp).

 

[StraightSix]

I'm sure we're not alone

Just for reference, the specs on the factory Promethean 10" driver are here: 10LB075-U-Beta Three

Here's the spec on the FaitalPro 10PR300: FaitalPRO - Professional Loudspeakers Made in Italy

 

[StraightSix]

Here's some more info for clarity.

The internal cab dimensions are:

285mm high
302m wide
213mm deep

There is a slot port at the front 302mm X 28mm and the port shelf runs from the front of the cab and leaves a 100mm air gap between the rear shelf edge and the rear cabinet panel.

 

[StraightSix]

As it's quiet here, I had a bit more of a play with WinISD and, if I'm doing it right, I think I have a basic grasp of it.

As I have to match a speaker with an already-built cab, I am assuming that I should look for a 10" driver with similar characteristics in WinISD to the original - maybe someone can let me know if that's the basics...?

Anyway, if I'm right, I have found a suitable-ish 10" driver which looks similar in WinISD but has an Xmax of 4.2mm as opposed to the 2mm of the original driver.

Is that enough of a difference to make this whole upgrade worthwhile...?

Help appreciated from WinISD experts

 

[StuartV]

I subscribed so I can see how this turns out. I really like my Promethean 110 combo, but I'm always down for making things better!

 

[StraightSix]

Welcome aboard

I have been running some figures through WinISD and have this plot for my efforts

1938959[/ATTACH]"]

The yellow is the original 'Ibanez' 10" driver, the red is an Oberton 10B200, the green is an Eminence DeltaLite II 2510 and the blue is a FaitalPro 10B300.

I would appreciate some guidance as to these results - I'm assuming that the Oberton is the closest match, the FaitalPro is going to be a bit light on the low end and the DeltaLite will be fine and even have a little more low end.

The main problem with the Oberton is lack of sensitivity.

I'm leaning towards the DeltaLite at the moment - can anyone shed some light on my findings...am I on the right track...?

 

[StraightSix]

Any pointers from WinISD experts...?

 

[StuartV]

I'm curious to hear from the experts, too!

 

[Dark Horse]

Free bump for my own curiosity....

...and just to make this bump more special, here's a narwhal....

 

[StuartV]

Now THAT is a dang special bump! LOL!

 

[Dark Horse]

Now THAT is a dang special bump! LOL!

I was hoping the Narwhal would bring good luck, but so far it hasn't worked...

 

[will33]

Didn't see this thread.

Taking the space occupied by the port out of the gross box volume I'm getting about 17 liters. That's pretty small but I could be goofing up some metric conversions.

In any case, the deltalite is the clear winner, although, none of those should play that low in that tiny box. Again, may be screwing up some metric stuff.

You're on the right track, I'd just make sure you've calculated the volumes properly and see that you've got the port tuning reverse engineered right. You should be getting more of a lowmid bump unless that tuning is really low. The Faital is showing it's weakness of having a low Qts. That means it needs a bigger box to reach low, or in this case, won't reach as low in a small box. The bigger xmax over the original means a good deal more power can be applied. That, in combination with high spl will get you a lot more useable output from the combo.

See that you're removing the space occupied by the port and the driver inside the box and using the net internal volume as your box size, then adjust the port dimensions to 30.2 cm x 2.8 cm x 11.3 cm and see what tuning that gives you.

 

[will33]

FWIW, typical 10" loaded bass cabs use around 1 cubic foot (28-30liters) per driver. IE: a 4 cubic foot, or 110-120 liter 410. Combo amps are made smaller for convenience. Yours seems really small and your curves look like they reach too deep for such a small box.

Again I could be goofing something up with the metric conversions.

 

[will33]

Your curves also look too flat. In a little box, they shouldn't reach that low, and have a substantial bump somewhere around 100-150 hz.

 

[StraightSix]

Thanks for the guidance Will - I have to admit I plotted them with WinISD Beta and now realise I should be using WinISD Pro Alpha.

I will try the plots again taking into account your points about the internal volume and port measurements...

 

[kraigo]

Will33 has this pretty well covered, but another thing to look for is how the excursion works out.

Look at the cone excursion graph, and adjust the amount of signal it's getting until you're hitting xMax. You can look at the various SPL graphs from there.

As time permits I'll look at this tonight.

KO

 

[will33]

Will33 has this pretty well covered, but another thing to look for is how the excursion works out.

Look at the cone excursion graph, and adjust the amount of signal it's getting until you're hitting xMax. You can look at the various SPL graphs from there.

As time permits I'll look at this tonight.

KO

+1

The maximum power setting in Alpha Pro will do that for you.

Also see your drivers are loaded up right and you're not missing important specs. If you have to, hit the drop down menu in the driver window so you can see the specs, double click on them, and edit them to match the driver data sheet.

That's all stuff you can do in Alpha Pro.

 

[StraightSix]

Right then - here's another plot refined with the extra info from Will:

Again, the original Ibanez 10" driver is in yellow, Eminence DeltaLite II 2510 is in green.

I've also included a couple of different alternatives to the Oberton and the FaitalPro - we have a Celestion NTR10-2520D in pink and a Celestion NTR10-2520E in red.

I'm pretty sure I have loaded the info correctly including the port size and length.

Any comments...?

 

[will33]

Deltalite is still the best bet. The combination of not having a bump in the lows along with a rising response in the mids may make it sound like not a whole lotta bass by comparison, but it still is. And it's xmax will allow you to drive it louder and/or turn the bass knob up a little bit if you want without getting distorted. It is just a 110, don't expect to shake the walls, but it will be a good improvement, and it's spl should make the combo in general play a little louder. You'll at least be able to turn it up more before fartout, both when stacked with your barefaced 112 and soloed.