IDing an Odd Hofner 500/1 Violin Bass

[armevans]

Hey, gang,

Long-time lurker, first time poster. I just bought a Hofner Violin Bass that turned up in Guitar Center's used listings, and I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out what I got. I'm hoping that some of the experts around here might be able to help me out.

Guitar Center had it listed as a 1970s 500/1. It's got some features that seem to support it being a very early 70s model—blade pickups with the Hofner logo, teacup knobs, short tailpiece, nitro finish (apparent from the finish checking). The white switches and metal strap button on the neck heel even suggest it might be very late 60s. The only thing tripping me up is the skunk stripe in the back of the neck and the "Made in Germany" stamp on the back of the headstock, which doesn't seem to match up with any vintage Hofner or reissue that I can find online. I've attached a few photos from the listing to show what I mean.

It was an impulse buy on the basis that I can always return it to my local Guitar Center if it's a total dog when it arrives, and I'll only be out the $20 they charged for shipping. I am not remotely an expert on Hofners or vintage basses in general—I'm a guitar player who dabbles in bass and grew up admiring Paul McCartney's Hofner. I absolutely won't be heartbroken if this is a super battered reissue or some weird franken-instrument or whatever—I'd just rather know now (and probably return it for a refund) than discover that it's fatally flawed (or totally worthless) once the short return window has ended.

Thanks, y'all!

 

[57pbass]

The backs of the tone and volume pots should have some numbers that will tell you the year and month of production.

 

[GIBrat51]

I would think that, in the 1970s, that script on the back of the headstock should say "Made in West Germany", since the country wasn't re-united yet. But, I'm not an expert; just sayin'... So, maybe made in the very late 1980's - or newer...?

 

[ac100X]

Hey, gang,

Long-time lurker, first time poster. I just bought a Hofner Violin Bass that turned up in Guitar Center's used listings, and I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out what I got. I'm hoping that some of the experts around here might be able to help me out.

Guitar Center had it listed as a 1970s 500/1. It's got some features that seem to support it being a very early 70s model—blade pickups with the Hofner logo, teacup knobs, short tailpiece, nitro finish (apparent from the finish checking). The white switches and metal strap button on the neck heel even suggest it might be very late 60s. The only thing tripping me up is the skunk stripe in the back of the neck and the "Made in Germany" stamp on the back of the headstock, which doesn't seem to match up with any vintage Hofner or reissue that I can find online. I've attached a few photos from the listing to show what I mean.

It was an impulse buy on the basis that I can always return it to my local Guitar Center if it's a total dog when it arrives, and I'll only be out the $20 they charged for shipping. I am not remotely an expert on Hofners or vintage basses in general—I'm a guitar player who dabbles in bass and grew up admiring Paul McCartney's Hofner. I absolutely won't be heartbroken if this is a super battered reissue or some weird franken-instrument or whatever—I'd just rather know now (and probably return it for a refund) than discover that it's fatally flawed (or totally worthless) once the short return window has ended.

Thanks, y'all!
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It looks good to me, here is mine. I bought it around 1979. I thought it was a 1969 bass, I'm sure there are experts here that can date yours and mine.

 

[Pimpernel Smith]

Sometimes, it says made in Western Germany stamped on the end of the tail piece, or even on the heel of the neck. Many details on a Hofner were not hard and fast. They did this or that, as it suited them.

 

[Dadio]

Could you provide a photo of the neck heel ?

 

[armevans]

Thanks all for weighing in so far! Indeed, the pots and neck heel should provide more information, but the bass isn't yet in my possession—these are just listing photos from the online ad. UPS say it's due to arrive tomorrow morning, so fingers crossed I'll have some additional photos and info for you in the next 24 hours.

 

[Pier_]

The only thing tripping me up is the skunk stripe

it's not a skunk stripe, it's a 5 pieces neck, nothing strange. in 1970 the neck was made this way.

it's a 1970 in perfect conditions.

an example

https://www.vintageandrare.com/uploads/products/79491/6346082/original.jpg?1763740153

I would think that, in the 1970s, that script on the back of the headstock should say "Made in West Germany"

I don't recall any Hofner with the "west germany" script. it's a thing I only know, in basses, for early Warwicks.

 

[12BitSlab]

West Germany was the name used by the U.S. and it's allies. The proper name was The Federal Republic of Germany. Citizens of the FRG commonly referred to themselves as Germany.

East Germany referred to themselves as the GDR - German Democratic Republic.

Products made in West Germany, to my knowledge, were never marked with the West Germany nomenclature.

 

[Pimpernel Smith]

est Germany was the name used by the U.S. and it's allies. The proper name was The Federal Republic of Germany. Citizens of the FRG commonly referred to themselves as Germany.

East Germany referred to themselves as the GDR - German Democratic Republic.

12Bit Slab:
All of what you say about the nomenclature referring to the division of Germany after WWII is true, but Hofner did stamp some of their parts that way. Perhaps they did it for export/ customs reasons during that time. I've seen and owned examples, but no longer have them.
In fact, I purchased some Chinaware, a covered butter dish and salt and pepper shakers, for my mother, that were marked that way.

 

[armevans]

Welp, the Hofner was delayed a day due to snowy weather in the midwest, but as I impatiently waited, I heard back from Mike Ball at Mike and Mike's Guitar Bar in Seattle. I just traded some gear with him, and he's bought and sold a bunch of old Hofners, so I sent him the photos to see what he thought. His perspective confirmed my uncertainties about the bass—he's very confident that this is one of the many Japanese Hofner copies that someone has tried to pass off as a real Hofner. He pointed out the headstock shape being slightly different from 60s/70s Hofners, the logo not matching the size/style/placement of this period of Hofners, and the contrasting five-piece neck construction not following the Hofner norm. Mike's an expert on these things, but I was worried that something was amiss when the selection of parts on this bass didn't seem to properly align with any specific year or era on the dating chart on violinbasses.com. The tuners and pickups appear to proper Hofners that were added at some point (explaining why they look right), but the bass itself isn't the real article. I'll see how it plays when it arrives anyway, but it's going back to Guitar Center in short order—even a very decent price for a vintage Hofner is way too high a price for an MIJ copy, and the same money could get me one of those neat hand-wired AC15s or an Ampeg SB-12 or something else fun.

 

[Dadio]

Not to discount Mike, whom I'm sure knows his stuff , but I don't see any issue with head stock shape. The only issue I see is that the decal appears to be a replacement, and having owned vintage Hofners, it's common for the plastic version nameplates to break apart. If this had one, possible it was replaced with a decal. Years ago I sent a letter to Hofner in Germany regarding my nameplate on my 1965 500/1 that had fallen apart, and they actually sent me a replacement free of charge . Give it a chance to authenticate before you sent it back. Hofner manufacturing was not always consistent, there are some strange variants out there. I've also never seen a Japanese violin bass knockoff to this degree of accuracy, but then again I don't know everything but having owned vintage 500/1s, I have some experience.

 

[Dadio]

Here re some photos of my 1967 500/1, built during the year Hofner transitioned from staple blade pickups , it still has the rounded heel …. note the camera angles may distort the features …

 

[Dadio]

In fact the neck looks like it was off the Hofner 5000/1 ( deluxe model) production line …..

 

[Pimpernel Smith]

is perspective confirmed my uncertainties about the bass—he's very confident that this is one of the many Japanese Hofner copies that someone has tried to pass off as a real Hofner. He pointed out the headstock shape being slightly different from 60s/70s Hofners, the logo not matching the size/style/placement of this period of Hofners, and the contrasting five-piece neck construction not following the Hofner norm. Mike's an expert on these things, but I was worried that something was amiss when the selection of parts on this bass didn't seem to properly align with any specific year or era on the dating chart on violinbasses.com. The tuners and pickups appear to proper Hofners that were added at some point (explaining why they look right), but the bass itself isn't the real article.

Please don't jump to any conclusions until you have received the instrument and have taken a good deep look at what you have. Hofner is notorious for having made their instruments with whatever bits and pieces they had hanging around on a given day, or even the phase of the moon. I've owned and played their basses since the early 1970s, and am still amazed at what turns up from time to time. Don't be surprised if you find parts that you might think are from various years all on one instrument. It happens with Hofner basses.

May I suggest that you take detailed photos and share them here so that you might get more information, or confirmation from people who have decades of experience? You might be pleasantly surprised with your purchase.

 

[armevans]

Thanks, y'all. The bass arrived today, and while I'm still not 1000% certain of it, it's looking surprisingly legit to me. I even pulled the control panel, and it has original 250k pots with a "519" date code. A very-very late '69 or '70 model lines up with a lot of the other features—lacquered decal, single closed clip tuners with plastic wings and slotted screws, 513 blade pickups with the Hofner logo, 40x104mm control panel in cream pearl, teacup knobs, cream slides, short tailpiece, etc. The only things that don't quite match up are the pearl cover on the neck heel (should be a short rounded wood heel by '69/'70), the weird "Made in Germany" logo without the "Genuine Hofner Original" text, and the five-piece construction. All of this would make me think that maybe it got a new neck at some point, but the white/black/white nut and zero fret really make it feel unlikely that this is anything but a Hofner neck (or a reproduction).

I'm struggling to see how it could be a copy—if it is, someone has gone to incredible effort to get the pots, control panel, pickup, tuners, nut, bridge, and tailpiece that all correspond to a not-especially-collectible era for this model. I struggle to see why someone would so exactingly mimic a '69 when they could just as easily mimic a '63 or '64, which would be far more valuable.

I'll grab some better pictures for the peanut gallery tomorrow. Tonight, I'm putting it through its paces and seeing whether it'll be a keeper or not.

 

[Pimpernel Smith]

and the five-piece construction. All of this would make me think that maybe it got a new neck at some point,

I think you're very fortunate to have a 5 piece neck. They are very attractive and stable.

 

[Dadio]

Hey any update on your bass , I was really looking forward to the pics !