- Mar 19, 2013
- 1,612
- 2,694
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- If only I were that good....
Also it's possible that certain acts have rigs on stage, as they are an endorsing artist of said rig
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If there is PA support, why have such a large rig on stage?
- Thread starter glocke1
- Start date
Because the drummer is so fricken loud on stage! No matter what support I have had, I always still need to be able to hear myself over 2 full trap drummers and 3 Fender twin playing guitarists!
is that the equivalent of putting a large athletic sock in your drawers?
Sometimes, just because you can and it looks excessive. I was told that my 8 x 15" stack sounded better than the McAuley house system from FOH. I told the FOH guy, who I knew very well, that if you make FOH sound like that, I'll unplug both cabs! He did and I unplugged the bottom one and turned way down. I mean I gotta hear myself, right?!!
It's still very much a fact that a powerful tube driven guitar amp is the sound of rock'n'roll. No matter what anyone tells you, a sim does not sound or feel like a pressed Stack.
That said, a bass with a clean line signal is quite common. So as long as the bassist has a good monitor mix via any source that could be fine.
If the drums are loud (let's assume they are acoustic) and the guitarist needs to run their amp to sound better and the bassist has a board with a nice DI that would technically work. I like amps and they are cool and belong on stage but that's my opinion. But if you don't want an amp don't get one. And then you will only be able to audition and rehearse and gig with other musicians who are of the same mindset.
That said, a bass with a clean line signal is quite common. So as long as the bassist has a good monitor mix via any source that could be fine.
If the drums are loud (let's assume they are acoustic) and the guitarist needs to run their amp to sound better and the bassist has a board with a nice DI that would technically work. I like amps and they are cool and belong on stage but that's my opinion. But if you don't want an amp don't get one. And then you will only be able to audition and rehearse and gig with other musicians who are of the same mindset.
If I am bringing my own gear, on big outdoor stages or loud indoor shows I use an 810 because I like the way it sounds. It makes me happy.
Mesa D800+
Fender 810 Pro
Spector Euro with US Haz circuit.
Glorious.
Mesa D800+
Fender 810 Pro
Spector Euro with US Haz circuit.
Glorious.
That's rock! For the longest I ran 2-15 with 4-12 stacks, 2 stacks if it was large or outdoors. And yes, it looked cool. Rock on.
Realistically, I like having the sound of my amp behind me. Standard rig is small - GB Neo-Pak and Berg 1x12. But it works terrifically for stage monitor for me and our drummer.
I'm not a fan of pointless giant rigs, but I must say that one time I went to a city-sponsored concert in the park where they have a huge stage on an open field with full PA support, which usually hosts traveling pro tribute acts. Those acts usually have backup amps and several road cases lining the back of the stage. This time, somehow a 4-piece local cover band got a gig on this series. At the back of this huge stage was just one reasonable drum kit, one bass half-stack and one guitar half-stack. Just seeing the setup before the show lowered my expectations. The stage looked completely naked! So to some degree you have to put something behind you, but some staging/lighting effects/etc. might be a lot easier on your back.
3x15" cabs is still less speaker surface area than one 8x10" cab (which has been a common rig for touring acts for decades). I'm not sure why this is considered such a large rig in the first place?
Looking at the band lineup, it might be a little more than necessary for most situations but there's nothing worse than walking into a gunfight when you only have a knife. And the volume knob turns both ways......
I think personal preference is the real reason, but there are a host of supporting technical considerations.
If the band is real loud, using a bass rig plus bass in the foldbacks can cause cancellations and a lot of low end leakage from the back of the foldbacks - given they are big and can handle a lot of power. One way to avoid this is to have a stage rig loud enough to never need bass in the foldbacks.
Another is IEMs, but that's an entirely different thing.
If the band is real loud, using a bass rig plus bass in the foldbacks can cause cancellations and a lot of low end leakage from the back of the foldbacks - given they are big and can handle a lot of power. One way to avoid this is to have a stage rig loud enough to never need bass in the foldbacks.
Another is IEMs, but that's an entirely different thing.
My practical side says there's no reason, unless the player ABSOLUTELY NEEDS whatever sound a big rig makes, mics it, and that's what FOH is getting. Me personally - I went to a 212 combo as soon as big PA's became accessible and I ain't going back. Sold all my big stuff.
In the example you gave, I guess it's possible the specific speakers being used aren't that efficient and the player needs 3 of them to get a comfortable stage volume. I think if it was me I'd downsize to something smaller and louder but hey, it ain't me.
Pretty much this. I usually have FOH support to get the bass sound out to the room / venue, but if I'm playing outdoors or on a larger stage, and we're using wedges, the band needs to hear me. Unless you've got expert help at the board, bass in the monitors can be a messy thing, and as a singer I prefer to keep it out of there so that I can hear my vocals well. So need enough power to get across the stage to the keyboard player, and that's about it.
Also, my rig sounds way better than what most of the local sound guys can produce so it doesn't break my heart to have some of that bleeding out to the audience.
...as many have mentioned-
It's all about the monitors.
I used to play in a band that opened for major New Country acts (name them, we opened for them).
A lotta times, the sound company sez "...you're only getting vocals in your monitors. Don't like it? Tough cookies".
Sometimes, you get their early AF, get a decent soundcheck...come back later in the day for the gig & everything is changed. WTH?!?
The worst? We opened for Lonestar. They used In-Ears. No monitors on-stage, the drummer is in a glass cube. Coulda been an F-ing disaster. Thankfully, we had some stage volume. Drummer couldn't hear ****, though.
It's all about the monitors.
I used to play in a band that opened for major New Country acts (name them, we opened for them).
A lotta times, the sound company sez "...you're only getting vocals in your monitors. Don't like it? Tough cookies".
Sometimes, you get their early AF, get a decent soundcheck...come back later in the day for the gig & everything is changed. WTH?!?
The worst? We opened for Lonestar. They used In-Ears. No monitors on-stage, the drummer is in a glass cube. Coulda been an F-ing disaster. Thankfully, we had some stage volume. Drummer couldn't hear ****, though.
I brought a rig to IEM gigs for a while.
Three reasons:
1. Backup. When we were pretty new in the realm of IEM, the rhythm guitar/singer had a problem with his setup, it would cut out every two seconds. It was impossible to play like that. I gave him my setup and played "naked", living off what I could hear from FOH and my amp. We've remedied that, I now own a wired setup for backup should the wireless fail.
2. The other singers did use the cheap earbuds that came with the IEM system. These buds did not do bass very well and they had problems hearing me properly, so I had the rig to give the bass a little stage presence. They've got capable earbuds by now.
3. Again, backup. We played a stage where FOH used a system that looked like they dragged it in from the trash.
It sounded that way, too. Had I not brought a rig that was able to carry the venue, we would have had trouble.
We altered our band contract, specifying that the venue has to either have a decent PA system or rent ours.
At some point I downsized my full stack to barefaced cabinets and a class D head. This is quite small and very light, but still a powerful rig that can easily compete with guitars and drums in very loud environments.
I was super happy and super stoked to have such means of amplification now, a one trip carry bass rig that can
do some serious damage - yet I find myself using it very seldom. I do a dub jam from time to time where there is no way near enough power for bass in the house, so I bring one cabinet and a head there, because two would be overkill.
Apart from that, I am focused on delivering a very good signal to FOH, that will sound well in most rooms even if the FOH person leaves my channel flat - so the crowd gets good quality bass. Up on stage I only want to be able to hear myself properly. If IEM is an option, I go IEM. If not, I bring just enough amp to be audible.
Three reasons:
1. Backup. When we were pretty new in the realm of IEM, the rhythm guitar/singer had a problem with his setup, it would cut out every two seconds. It was impossible to play like that. I gave him my setup and played "naked", living off what I could hear from FOH and my amp. We've remedied that, I now own a wired setup for backup should the wireless fail.
2. The other singers did use the cheap earbuds that came with the IEM system. These buds did not do bass very well and they had problems hearing me properly, so I had the rig to give the bass a little stage presence. They've got capable earbuds by now.
3. Again, backup. We played a stage where FOH used a system that looked like they dragged it in from the trash.
It sounded that way, too. Had I not brought a rig that was able to carry the venue, we would have had trouble.
We altered our band contract, specifying that the venue has to either have a decent PA system or rent ours.
At some point I downsized my full stack to barefaced cabinets and a class D head. This is quite small and very light, but still a powerful rig that can easily compete with guitars and drums in very loud environments.
I was super happy and super stoked to have such means of amplification now, a one trip carry bass rig that can
do some serious damage - yet I find myself using it very seldom. I do a dub jam from time to time where there is no way near enough power for bass in the house, so I bring one cabinet and a head there, because two would be overkill.
Apart from that, I am focused on delivering a very good signal to FOH, that will sound well in most rooms even if the FOH person leaves my channel flat - so the crowd gets good quality bass. Up on stage I only want to be able to hear myself properly. If IEM is an option, I go IEM. If not, I bring just enough amp to be audible.
I consider going ampless/IEM akin to using an athletic sock in place of certain latex products.
I don't like having volume in IEMs to protect my ears so it's been a struggle for me.
This.
For the venues we play, we bring plenty of PA. Our board handles IEMs beautifully. I still bring more rig than I could ever need. Why? I love the way bass feels when it wraps around my ribcage. I love the way my rig EQs. It's a Mesa TT800 and, so far, nobody had come up with those two preamp together in a pedal.
Bass rigs are cool to some of us. Yes, mine is smaller these days. But, make no mistake, it will get stupid loud if need be.
