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I'm considering a mini-stack

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by ostrzoskrzydly, Sep 28, 2003.

  1. ostrzoskrzydly


    Jul 1, 2003
    hey guys,
    I currently have a great low-powered amp, and an aguilar gs112. I absolutely love the tone, but i found that i have to push it very hard in a band situation. I saw that a lot of you are using pairs of 1x10" cabs with claruses or similar stuff, and seem to be doing great. I think that giving the amp a 4 ohm load (+ a lil bump in efficiency) may mean the end of my woes. What kind of cabs do you suggest ? I'm rave on the mini stack idea, but a single cabinet (maybe accugroove) will be fine. I don't really want to change my tone much too, but I heard the aguilar gs210 isn't that good. I'm also located in europe, so please don't make up some too exotic brands ;) )
  2. Jazz Ad

    Jazz Ad Mi la ré sol Supporting Member

    Support european economy.
    What do you think about this cutie ?
    300 W, 2x10"



  3. Welcome to the quest for the holy grail;)

    There have been a lot of threads on this, including one of mine where I brought a Clarus and am looking for some lightweight cabs.

    I think top of the list is the Epifini Ultralight 1x10 either a pair or one coupled with a 1x12 [but Epifini's are very expensive].

    You could look at EA's, Edens, Ampeg portabass and Hartke Transporter cabs.

    A cheaper option would be 2, 1x10 SWR workingman cabs.

    There are of course others like EBS and Heavos.

    I cannot give you a review of any except the Epi UL 1x10 with a Clarus of which all I can say is that if I had the money I would but like a shot.

    Hope this helps and please keep us informed of how your search goes.


  4. jokerjkny


    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PHL
    what kind of music are you going to use it with? how many people? what kind of wattage are the guitarists, if any, pumping?

    if you've in a louder rock band, forget it. my clarus setup with either my Epi or Acme pair would wither. but for funk, jazz, acoustic stuff, they're both incredible.

    IMHO, i think you'd be much better off, getting another Aguilar 1x12. now that would be a mini stack of doom! you'd be amazed at how adding just another 1x12 to your so called "low powered" amp would help your stage volume in tremendous ways.
  5. ostrzoskrzydly


    Jul 1, 2003
    Jazz Ad: these are indeed cute :) i'll try to check them when i get the chance
    jokerjkny: i think every possible kind of music :) unfortunately including rather loud rock - may go as far as a pair of all tube full stacks, but i don't think it's possible at all to compete with this without PA support. Usually it ends at a 2x12 50 watt tube combo and an unamplified drummer, and that's where i can just barely keep up (the power amp clip led flashes from time to time)
    so like i said, i will probably be able to get pa support in louder situations (you just need a cattle prod for the soundman), while i think i'll be able to keep up without any problems at practices and/or small gigs with some little improvement in volume. adding a second aguilar seems like the obvious solution, but i haven't got around to trying it yet. dare to describe and compare some of the better known brands of high-end bass amplification ? I must admit that the EA-VL208 is a looker :)
  6. Ampeg once made an 8x6.5" cab...waist high or something. My fantasy was always to play with a "stack" of these behind me...too bad you can't find them anymore, that would have been a hoot!
  7. jive1

    jive1 Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jan 16, 2003
    Owner/Retailer: Jive Sound
    I have dealt with the situation you are talking about to some degree. I do use a low power amp at times and I started with an Aggie 1x12. I searched for a 1x10 to pair it up with and found a great complimentary cab in the EA CXL-110. If you want some details, check out my thread here.
  8. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    Fremont, Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    What amp are you using? This could be part of your troubles.

    As for the mini rig concept, I believe that it is quite viable, and you should see a number of TBers following the mini rig path. Here is a photo of my first forray into mini rig land:


    For its size, the Walkabout is pretty powerful (a conservative 300w into 4 ohm) and has great tone. The Eden WT-550 is approximately the same size with even more power (though I don't know how the tone compares). The Epifani cabs are expensive, but really are quality gear that will get the job done in a variety of environments. I tried a number of their cabs, and found that the combination of the T-110UL and T-112 was truly something special. I should note, though, that for a simliar price (maybe even less), you can pick up an Accugroove Mini Whappo, which is a phenomenal sounding cab. Similar to the T-110UL/T-112 in overall volume, balance, and articulation, but with little to no coloration. I have posted numerous times on both the Epi's and Accugroove, so if you do a search on this forum, you'll see me spouting off quite a bit.

    I also happen to have a good deal of EA gear, including three VL-208's. While these are great cabs (and truly a classic), I would not recommend powering any of the VL-series cabs with a "low-powered" amp. These babies like headroom. If you give it to them, they sound great, and the VL-110/VL-208 combo is even more versatile. Of course, I have an iAMP 800 on the way, so I should be set in that department.

    The newer CxL series is much more efficient, though. While I have not heard the CxL-110 or CxL-112, I do have a Wizzy WZ-112, and it is a great little 4 ohm cab. You might want to try it out. I have used it with both my Walkabout and with my rack rig, and it is an incredible cab for the money. It somehow combines vintage warmth with modern hi-fi clarity and detail. Very impressive.

    So, you might want to look into a more powerful head. I think that either the Walkabout, WT-550, iAMP 800, or a WW would make great small head choices. The Clarus would be good, too, but I'd stick with two 4 ohm cabs, then, to get the full power. Cab-wise, I'd very highly recommend that you check out the Epifani T-110UL/T-112 combo, the Accugroove Mini Whappo, and the EA Wizzy. Others have had great results with the Bergie 1x12's, though I have not heard them, myself. If you have enough juice, then two VL-208's or a VL-110/VL-208 stack would be great, as would be two ACME Low B-1's.

    Hope this helps, Tom.
  9. lo-freq

    lo-freq aka UFO

    Jan 19, 2003
    DFW, Texas
    The GS210 is a pretty good cab, if fact the GS210 + GS112 combination sounds really good together. Just make sure you have plenty of juice (power) on hand.
  10. ostrzoskrzydly


    Jul 1, 2003
    thanks !
  11. brock29609

    brock29609 4 strings, 2 wheels

    May 11, 2003
    Greenville, SC
    Does your Aggie 12 have a horn??? If so, bid on this to go with it. You'll be pleased. Punchy, but not muddy and DIRT CHEAP (price, not quality) and only 36 lbs! I'd be all over it if I just didn't buy a similar Bag End model...

    Avatar 15... LIGHT!
  12. wneff

    wneff Supporting Member

    May 27, 2003
    Woburn, MA

    I used a 12" speaker with a somewhat high power amp (about 250 W) in a rock situation and blew the speaker up (driver over excursion). I used the EA CXL112.

    When you say you're pushing it it may well be the limit of the single 12" speaker, unless you have less than 100W into 8 Ohm, then its the amp.

    Unfortunately, there is only so much air you can move with a single 12".
    I would consider several options:
    a) Add another identical cab.
    + You know what youre getting
    + No phase problems
    + Flexible - use one for small, two for larger gigs

    - May still not be loud enough
    - Moderately expensive (not as bad as some others)

    b) Add a 15" like the Avatar mentioned above
    + May be louder/more power
    - May muddy everything up
    - May have phase problems with the 12"

    c) Add a 12" Avatar. Is most likely closer in sound to the Aguilar than a 15" and may not have as severe phase problems. Is cheaper than the Aguilar.

    If you have an amp with more than 200 W into 4 Ohm you should be O.K. To me it does not make sense to torture a single 12" with more than 200 W.

    My small rig now is a GK200MB with 12" paragon with a EA CXL112 extension. This is barely loud enough for my rock but loud enough for my church band and the brass orchestra and sounds great.
    New about 720$ + 675$, weights 24+44lb

    My big system is 15" EV + 2x10" Trace Elliot on
    400W Craaft amp (see the picture on www.midnightjones.com) weights about 200 lb.

  13. Aram


    Feb 2, 2003
    New York, NY
    If you decide to go this route, I have an (older model) Avatar Kappa 12 cab in mint condition that I am selling (it looks similar to the Avatar 15 posted on the ebay link above, except has a tweeter and a 12"). PM me if you're interested (i haven't posted it for sale yet).

  14. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    Fremont, Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    That could be a great solution. You'd have a great speaker enclosure, combined with a quality 200w amp from EA. You should note, though, that you need a balanced XLR input. And of course, you can also "daisy chain" as many powered Wizzy's as you want, which is kinda cool.

  15. lo-freq

    lo-freq aka UFO

    Jan 19, 2003
    DFW, Texas
    Depends on the speaker.

    Bergantino 1x12s (HT112 &/or EX112) seem to handle fairly large quantities of power very well.
    I've heard that the EA CxL-112 will also (it's more efficient than the Bergs, so probably wouldn't handle as much as the Bergs).

    [Care should always be taken not to over-drive any speaker, though. You have to use your head and your ears.]
  16. ostrzoskrzydly


    Jul 1, 2003
    I reckon the DI output will work fine for that ?
  17. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    Fremont, Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    If it's balacned XLR, you're gold.
  18. I went semi mini stack! I ionvested in Ashdown stuff - and ABM 500 EVO II head (575 watts) a Mini 48 cabinet and a Mini 15 cabinet!

    As was mentioned above, you might find that you need to upgrade your amp as well if you want to compete with loud guitarists!

    See attachment for my rig!
  19. Tone, portability and volume, a balancing act. :meh:

    I've used that combo and found that the tone of GS112 does not "cut" in a loud band. You have enough EQ flexibility in the S220 to change that (roll off a little bass, boost mids), but then the tone you love is gone.
    NOTE: While on the subject of EQ, don't run the Aural Enhance knob past 8 or 9 o'clock. Along with the added warmth of using the second leg of the preamp tube, it adds a sawtooth eq that sounds lovely, but cuts even less.

    The simplist solution to get another GS112. Doubling the amount of speaker area will do more for your volume than going to a high power amp. You may love the sound of two of these cabs, or you may find that two put out too much of that heavy low mid goodness. A popular alternative is to add a CxL110. This adds volume and clarity. Tom's report on the Wizzy sounds great, so that maybe something to try (for myself, I would stay away from a powered cab, it will ultimately cut into the flexibility of a small rig).

    If, after adding a speaker, you find you are still not loud enough, pick up a 1000watt power amp and use the S220 as a preamp. There's all kinds of good power amps available new and used under $500, (the Carvin DCM1000 and QSC RMX being the bang for buck leaders, IMO). This will have the added benefit of giving you some head room and will really improve your sound if you are running near the limits of the S220's output.