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I'm Not Quite Dead Yet!!

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by The Golden Boy, Jan 27, 2005.

  1. http://www.kron4.com/Global/story.asp?S=2862140

    Here's the kicker-
    Not "fired" but "suspended."

    If I were sitting in a morgue, zipped up in a body bag for 2 hours... :mad:
  2. Josh Ryan

    Josh Ryan - that dog won't hunt, Monsignor. Supporting Member

    Mar 24, 2001
  3. DigMe


    Aug 10, 2002
    Waco, TX
    Some of my wife's doctor friends went to Indonesia independently to help with the relief. They contracted a fishing boat to take them to this island that was about a day's trip away. In the middle of the trip they encountered a massive storm and they were caught in the cold and rain with 25 foot waves crashing down on them. Part of the cargo they were delivering to the island was body bags and they ended up having to literally get in the body bags to stay warm. Of course that led to the morbid joke that they were making it easier for the people that eventually found them.

    It got so bad they eventually had to call out an SOS and they were rescued by a larger ship.

    brad cook
  4. McHack


    Jul 29, 2003
    Central Ohio!

    It isn't up to EMT's to pronounce someone legally dead is it? Doesn't that take a doctor? But, if a med personal is going to make a mistake, I'd prefer it to be like this,,, as opposed to doing something that could actually CAUSE my death,, ya know?
  5. DigMe


    Aug 10, 2002
    Waco, TX
    Yup. Doctor has to verify and sign death certificate.

    brad cook
  6. McHack


    Jul 29, 2003
    Central Ohio!
    Yea, that's what I thought... Seems to me, the blame is misplaced in this instance.
  7. Regardless, even if it has to go through 4 EMT's, 3 ER Doctors, the Chief of Staff of the Hospital and a little Fairy at the morgue entrance- everyone should share the blame. There's a few EMT's and doctors here, is this a case of "Oops, my bad?" A misdiagnosis of an ailment or injury is a concievably excusable error, but misdiagnosis of dead or not dead is not.
  8. Ere!! 'E says 'e's not dead!!

    While you have to have a doctor sign off on the little piece of paper that says "Legally, so-and-so has kicked the bucket," an EMT can say, "Yup, this one's gone and joined the choir invisible," at which point they stop first-aid/CPR or whatever, put him/her in a bag, and truck them off to the morgue. The death certificate is signed later.

    I still think that the EMT that said he's dead should be told that you check for breathing from the mouth, not the foot or belly button, wherever it was that he checked.

    Rock on
  9. RLT


    Jul 10, 2004
    South Central OH
    They always made us put them on heart monitors before we could say any thing . Then you could only declare if they were pooling or obvious signs that you weren't bringing them back. So we couldn't declare till they were room tempature but not hypothermic or decapatated. Some times we could get away with it if they were cut in half.

    Rusty Former EMT-P F/F ER Nurse
  10. Bard2dbone


    Aug 4, 2002
    Arlington TX
    It might be important to explain that there are different levels of EMS training, and sometimes the diffrerences are important.

    EMT-Basic's are the lowest useful level. THey can splint and bandage and do vital signs. But mostly they are there to assist the Paramedic, usually.
    EMT-Intermediate's have more training and a few specialised skills. They can intubate, start IV's, and if they have an AED can defibrillate. But they can't do much in the way of medications or EKG interpretation.
    EMT-Paramedic and Licensed Paramedics can do the same thing as each other. One just has more school. We can do the other stuff, plus meds and cardiology. I'm an LP.

    EMT's don't get much in the way of cool tools, like EKG monitors. The EMT's who saw this guy probably felt for a pulse, listened for respirations, and looked at his overall condition(after having been run over, remember) and said "Hmmmm I didn't feel anything. I don't hear anything. And he looks all messed up. That's dead enough for me." Unfortunately, if your blood pressure is low enough, -say for example if you had just been run over by a car and had internal bleeding, they won't feel a pulse. And if they don't listen long enough while you're breathing slowly and shallowly, they won't hear anything. Paramedics (a higher level of training than an EMT) have EKG's and check a heart rhythm when declaring someone dead.

    In the system I worked in, we had to have a nonviable EKG AND evidence of 'condition incompatible with life' to declare someone at the scene. And we had to check in with medical control to declare them. We couldn't just do it on our own.

    Once we had a VERY obviously dead guy. I described the situation over the radio and asked for permission to declare him on scene, expecting an automatic respone. I was surprised when medical control demonstrated that they either hadn't been paying attention to my description of the situation, or they were expecting to be payed by the number of transports that night. They told me "Transport the patient. Full measures." I looked at the radio mic incredulously for a moment before asking back "Should we find the head first, or transport without it?"
  11. McHack


    Jul 29, 2003
    Central Ohio!
    I guess my biggest concern is this.

    Doctor's already get sued for malpractice. Hell, malpractice suits are being abused on a regular basis, by folks try to cash in. The mind set is typically, "Hey, doctors make alot, they can afford it!"

    Well, what about the EMT... These guys get paid next to nothing in comparison. Start strapping these guys w/ the burden of proof, w/o compensation & you'll find a pretty empty career path sooner,, rather than later.

    Doctors get paid the big bucks for a reason. They are the individuals that went thru all of the schooling, interning, etc... to become what they are. EMT's are no where near as qualified as a doctor... ANY doctor. I don't care if its just a skin doctor.

    Attack our EMTs, & pretty soon there wont be anyone to come CPR us when we have our heart attacks, etc...
  12. zcwilkes

    zcwilkes Supporting Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Barboursville, WV
    Completely depends what the local protocals are... I've work in Ohio, WV and VA as a Paramedic. Just like Bard said if I rolled up on somebody in Ohio or West Virginia MedCom(whoever) would ask you to transport and work'em, but in Richmond, Virginia Paramedics could make the call after confirming heart sounds and a strip from the ole Lifepak 12(in three leads). BUT every case is different and it depends on how "fresh" they are, and if its trauma or medical.
  13. Tim Cole

    Tim Cole Supporting Member

    Jun 12, 2002
    Findlay, Ohio
    My drummer is an EMT, actually some kind of management, or supervisor at a local company.

    He makes $7.60 an hour
  14. Just about every time I made "woopie" with my Exwife, I thought she could have been pronounced dead on the scene. "Insert rim shot" Unfortunatly when we were done she started breathing and bitchn up a storm with out missing a beat!!!!

    She wonders why shes an EX!!!!
  15. Bard2dbone


    Aug 4, 2002
    Arlington TX
    That's way big bucks for an EMT-B. Probably because he's in a management role.