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I'm scared.... :-( Please reassure me!!!

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Modern Growl, Aug 26, 2005.

  1. Hey guy, I was the individual who recently opened up the "Give me the science to back it up" Thread, which has lead to a very good debate. I have a specific question now that maybe you's could help me out with.

    Here's the deal. I right now, have a Fender 250 1x15" (Great sounding combo) combo, and the speaker reaches down to 43Hz. I'm debating on turning it in to get the exact same combo, just the 2x10" version, simply for the fact that I could sound better/tighter. From the research I've done, calling Eminence, the 10"s go down to 53Hz in that combo.

    Now, the reason why I'm scared to do this is becuase... well I'm a bassist and like the low end, right? But I would like a tight low end.

    Here's the deal... I just bought the Sadowsky Outboard Pre, which I'm in love with and the Pre boost at 40Hz. - Right now, as it is, I hear this boost nicly w/ the 1x15" combo. Am I going to loose that low end/waste the pedal's bass boost if I go w/ the 2x10's, being they go down to 53Hz????

    My question basically is, am I going to loose all that bottom? Will the 2x10" combo/cab be able to produce anything under 53Hz?

    (I've always wondered why popular mfr's like Ampeg ect... make heads that have bass boost's at 40Hz, but MOST of their 4x10" cab's only go down to 50Hz. What about those other 10Hz of lush bottom end?

    Whats the deal? Whats going to happen to the tone?

    Lenghty, I know. And I appreciate your time if You've read thus far. Any wisdom you could share?
  2. KJung

    KJung Supporting Member

    It doesn't really work that way.... the published roll-off frequency of a cab is usually the -3db rolloff... the real drop dead rolloff is usually somewhat lower. The Sadowsky 40hz is a center frequency for the EQ curve (I think it is anyway... I doubt that it's shelving), so it gradually raises the frequencies around that center point (usually skewed so that the curve is non-symmetrical.. with the higher freq's maybe from 40-100hz) raised more), so you're fine.

    Also, the Low B fundamental is around 30hz or so... however some of us believe the B string sounds better when a cab actually roles off significantly higher than that, like the Eden410XLT... that big cab rolls off at a very high freq... I think almost 50hz, but provides the punchiest B ever (IMO). I think someone explained that it's the B first harmonic that sounds good to a lot of people.

    Finally, small cabs that roll off very low (i.e., are tuned to low frequencies) are usually somewhat inefficient.. it takes a lot of power to get them up to volume... the old 'you can have two of three... small, loud, or low'. So, a 210 cab that rolls off a little higher will (IMO) usually project a little better and have a percieved volume out in the room that is louder than one that is tuned a lot lower.

    So... you might find that you like the low end better with a cab that rolls off a little higher. Just be careful... physics kicks in... a lower roll-off freq in a small cab will still sound 'less bassy' out in the room than a larger cab with a higher roll-off freq.. all other things being equal.

    I'm sure we will get disagreement!!!! Also, I'll look forward to corrections in areas I'm misinformed :)
  3. KJung

    KJung Supporting Member

    Of course.... this is more to the point than all my 'blah blah blah' :) However, I find it helpful to understand a little about the specs prior as a way to help guide your search. I'm learning more about this stuff through the site all the time, and if nothing else, it explains some of what I hear in various rigs.
  4. bassontherun


    Jul 9, 2005
    +1! Specs can be like statistics ("There are lies, damned lies, and statistics." as the old addage goes). They can be enormously helpful in sorting out one item from another (or the pack), but in the end, your ears will tell you what you need to know. Kjung and BSR (and many others who will post) are right, there's a lot more to it than a simple number. Definitely try to get some face time with both amps before making a decision (if possible).
  5. See, here's the deal guys. If I do get the 2x10, I'm going to have to order it "blind". No chance of doing a side by side like I wish I could. I'm going to have to rely on spec for this one. :(

    Hey KJung, whats the fundamental on an E string? Thats as low as I'm currently going.

    Also, do you feel that 53Hz for a 2'10 is going to be "somewhat inefficient"

    And to everyone else... which would you go with, if you had to blind like me? Keep the 1x15, or go w/ the 2x10's?
  6. KJung

    KJung Supporting Member

    41hz... but remember... the fundamental frequency of the note doesn't have a lot to do with good sound... that's why boosting, for example, 150 hz can really result in the E string punching through.

    A 53hz roll-off would not be considered low.... however, I'm not a speaker designer... I know there's more to efficiency and high SPL than just the pure tuning of the cab.

    Other things come into play also.... if you are only going to use one cab, you can get most 210's in 4ohm versions, which will allow your amp to put out more power, which will open up the low end a little bit, etc., etc. etc.!

    See if you can at least play out of some 210 before you take the plunge... they are different animals from a 15.
  7. i'm kinda stuck w/ this local dealer who only carries Fender and SWR. I like the Fender stuff better.
  8. i'll try to explain this as acurate as i can.. i am not an expert but here it goes.

    if a speaker is rated 53hz to 10khz it will produce sound at +-3db (depending on what the manufacurer stated) between those freq. I't will produce sound outside those freq but at lower volumes.

    You will not loose all of the bottom but it might be a significant difference. you might be able to boost those low freq so that you get those lows you want. Depending on the eq and the speakers in question.

    i have a behringer 8*10 and it produces a low B (30.87hz) very well even though it is rated at 38hz..

    i hope this made any sence.
  9. special order. and I like the tone though... I really do, just the thougth of "tighter" is alway appealing. Even If you already have 2x10's... and you love em' and if someone comes along w/ this magic box that will "tighten" even more, who wouldn't give it a try....

    I truly like the Fender Tone, Warm and Articualte.... I really dont want to be steared to Eden/Aguilar/Mesa. even though I know they are superior I'm just not going to go down that road.
  10. how about this....

  11. metron

    metron Supporting Member

    Sep 12, 2003
    my experience with extended low frequency response is that its not all that useful. i found that the ultra lows make the sound somewhat less punchy or tight. ultra lows translate to boom in most rooms I have played in.

    honestly i wouldnt sweat the frequency response numbers too much. you are deciding between a trade-off. get the 10s for more punch but less ultra lows, keep the 15 for ultra lows and settle for less punch. i like both personally. if i were you i would just save up for an extension cab with 10s, or get the combo with 10s and save for a 15 extension.
  12. anyone else?
  13. David Wilson

    David Wilson Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member

    Oct 14, 2002
    Lower Westchester, NY
    on a general 1*15 * 2*10, I'll usually go with the 210
  14. BadB


    May 25, 2005
    AZ, USA
  15. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Take the manufacturers specs with a truckload of salt. Many of them rate the low cut off at the -10dB frequency, not the -3dB. But they won't tell you that. There is no industry standard. You can only make a reasonable comparison with a real live SPL chart, something very few manufacturers will supply. Most tens will cut off at least a half octave above a fifteen, but you may not have been utilizing the fifteens capability anyway. The sorry fact is that without trying it first you won't know if what you're getting is what you want.
  16. Fuzzbass

    Fuzzbass P5 with overdrive Gold Supporting Member

    I often play 5-string bass through a 6x10 sealed cab that reaches 48Hz (I think). Sounds fantastic... even the low notes on the B string. In short, I really don't give a cat's butt about whether the fundamental is being reproduced. Psychoacoustics fills in the missing fundamental, and there are plenty of other harmonics present. I can easily EQ that cab to get punch, growl, or a nice deep rumble.

    So I agree with what the others said: listen with your ears, not your eyes. And because you're asking, I say go with the 2x10!
  17. 2x10. For more definition along with the lows. I currently have the Fender 410 Pro SL. Sounds great. Makes the floor rumble under my feet.

    Gotta admit, though...from what I've been reading here, lately, I'm thinking of maybe going Schroeder...2x10 or 2x12.
    Lots of great reviews here from users. The sound, volume and range is all right there in one compact cab!