In-ear monitoring killing the big rig?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Barfly, Aug 28, 2005.

  1. Barfly


    Dec 27, 2000
    GTA, Canada
    Here's my dilema.

    I have recently gone to in-ear monitoring with a monitor mixer allowing me to add my bass signal via SABDDI.

    I can hear myself great onstage now without the need for a huge cab/amp.

    I have a 410 Ampeg SLN run through a Yorkville 400 head, and a Yorkie 100 watt combo for 'small' gigs. Thing is, I have been hauling the 100 to large shows as of late and have enough stage monitor (and FOH with the SABDDI) for my g'tar players, at worst having myself bled through the monitors.

    Do I hang onto the 'big rig' or maybe trade both rigs for a 200-300 watt combo?

    I'd hate to lose the 'Peg since it really has served me well but I just cannot see myself using it anymore.

    Damn you, in-ears!!!
  2. For my purposes, my on stage rig supplies the vast majority of my tone, unless I'm running through an enormous PA, in which case my bandmates need it. Stage monitors just dont cut it for our needs. If you don't rely on your rig in the same manner I rely on mine, ditch it and go with the in ears. Sounds like it works for you.
  3. 8mmOD


    Mar 20, 2005
    I endorse & use Tech 21 pedals, Eminence loaded cabs, EMG pickups, Jim Dunlop picks & Ernie Ball Strings, BC Rich Basses.
    Unless it is a collectors piece (I admit have a few), I eventually dump the gear I don't use. But the trick is to not be hastey about it. 6 months or a year from now you may decide you hate the in ear monitors.
  4. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    Never sell anything! You'll always have a need for a 4 x 10".
  5. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    At the 6500 seat venue I work at roughly half the acts don't use floor wedges or sidefills anymore. Those who can afford the in-ear technology have embraced it.
  6. Chef

    Chef Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    May 23, 2004
    Columbia MO
    Staff Reviewer; Bass Gear Magazine
    Having never useed one, I find it fascinating that something that small can have bass response worth having.

    They must work well tho, as every national act I see come thru, and nearly everyone I see on TV-like Austin City Limits or whatever-use them. I have a hard time imagining mega-stars settling for something they didn't like.

    I'd like to try them someday. Hauling big gear bites.

    Piccolo players are way smarter than we are :ninja:
  7. Steve Clark

    Steve Clark Supporting Member

    Jan 9, 2004
    London ON
    I would also like to try the in ear although the work I do currently does not need/have access to the technology. I too would be very curious to hear how everything sounds. On a louder gig I will usually wear custom ear plugs so I can certainly imagine that properly contoured in ear monitor would sound quite good.
  8. willgroove2


    Aug 16, 2003
    chicago IL
    Endorsing Artist;Essential sound products,Dunlop, Ergo Instruments
    I use in-ear's from time to time when im on the road depending on the artist and their monitor set-up.what made a big change for me was when i got custom ear-mold's.i have shure e-5's they have a bi-amped set-up with a high end and low end driver and now that i have the custom molds i keep both in at all times,when i used the stock ones i usually would take one out.
  9. Matt Call

    Matt Call Supporting Member

    Aug 1, 2004
    Minneapolis, MN
    I used them for a little while once. I was filling in for a guy and the band all used IEMs. I gave up. They kept falling out. I enjoyed them though for the short period that I used them and they stayed in.

    On a side note: His Carvin 115+410 sounded like crap.
  10. D.A.R.K.


    Aug 20, 2003
    in-ears are great, used correctly. personally i've still got to "feel" the soundwaves and resonance in my body, so a good amp is important. plus, the audience doesn't have in-ears.
    i believe you should always have band backline decent enough to get a great sound BEFORE the p.a. is used. i always have my groups(instruments) play together with the house off, and walk out about 20 ft or so (the length of my cable) and listen to the mix. i will always force the guitarist to do so, as well.
    you should be able to hear a quality mix that is even with the drumkit.
    then the house, monitors, and ears can augment a great sound, not try to make one from an unbalanced mess.
  11. Chef

    Chef Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    May 23, 2004
    Columbia MO
    Staff Reviewer; Bass Gear Magazine
    Valid point! Much harder to fix a mess than augment it.
  12. BigMikeW

    BigMikeW Banned

    May 25, 2005
    Nashville, TN.
    Banned by TB Administration for refusal to account for funds

    I completely disagree. Several things. Once the mains are up the crowd is hearing the mix that is going through the FOH. I have played with several acts using in-ears and they are awesome. The drums have drums shields around them and there are still regular monitors on stage for a little sound pressure level.

    Ever hear a live band where you are sitting in the first 10 rows or so and getting a lot of stage volume from the amps and are straining to hear the vocals because they are coming from the FOH? Instruments and vocals leaving from two different points.

    The in-ears (provided they are GOOD in-ears) sound great and have a huge sonic range. Much deeper and wider than our bass cabinets boys.

    I have been using an in-ear system for almost two years now and have done close to 90% of my gigs with a small direct pedal board consisting of a SansAmp Programmable Bass Driver, Tuner, Demeter Compulator, EBS Bass IQ, Aphex Bass Exciter and a Radial DI all sent to FOH and MY mix in my in-ears. I also have a full band MIX sent to my wedge to "feel" the music a little.

    This is by far the best way to go. Every major act (including Metalica and others) can't be wrong. Amps on their stages run at a far lower volume than they use to AND most of them are just for show.

    I know of several country acts that run almost everything direct and use in-ears. I hardly think they are starting with an uneven mess and trying to fix it with in-ears. QUITE THE OPPOSITE. More and more artist are looking for a clean stage and more and more singers are embracing in-ears because they don't have to compete with high stage volumes that make hearing themselves in their monitors harder.

    There is really no downside and the experience is awesome. Not to mention the amount of gear I take is about 1/4 of what I use to. And, you will not beat the sound, PERIOD.
  13. 8mmOD


    Mar 20, 2005
    I endorse & use Tech 21 pedals, Eminence loaded cabs, EMG pickups, Jim Dunlop picks & Ernie Ball Strings, BC Rich Basses.
    You apparently have a lot of storage space :D :D :D
  14. Phil Smith

    Phil Smith Mr Sumisu 2 U

    May 30, 2000
    Peoples Republic of Brooklyn
    Creator of: iGigBook for Android/iOS
    What's the long term effect of in-ears on one's hearing?
  15. BigMikeW

    BigMikeW Banned

    May 25, 2005
    Nashville, TN.
    Banned by TB Administration for refusal to account for funds
    Shouldn't be any. They aren't blaring in your ears and they help block outside noise so it is very isolated. This makes it possible to not crank them and hear everything very well. Plus, everyone gets their own mix. I have vocals about 10% louder than the drums and myself. Guitars and piano/keys are about 10% under me and the drums. IF I need less or more of anything I just ask.
  16. I trend to agree with BigMike here, BUT I think the other part of the point would have to be that the quality of the mix is only going to be as good as the quality of the engineer!! There are a lot of people who have inears but are not getting the total benefit because they are not really hearing a great mix through the inears....It is pretty ironic but my inear rig is virtually identical to BigMikes....Sansamp programmable (or U5 until it got burnt up in a fire!!) and Compulator into a Radial JDV active DI and I am done!! (I had been experimenting with a Line 6 Bass POD Live XT with GREAT results but it too was lost in the fire :crying: !!)I like the sound of the entire stereo field I hear in the inear and I can get ANY mix I want.....I typically have bass, kick, snare, hat and vocals a little hotter than the rest in the mix and then a fairly balanced mix of everything else......YMMV of course!!


  17. BigMikeW

    BigMikeW Banned

    May 25, 2005
    Nashville, TN.
    Banned by TB Administration for refusal to account for funds
    ABSOLUTELY! I have been lucky and have had some very good engineers. But, I have had bad ones too but that usually gets worked out fairly well.

    I too am working with the Line6 Bass POD XT Live. Excellent results so far. I am going to continue working with it and it will probably replace the SansAmp as the main "tone" generator. It does need a much higher output to drive a poweramp (SansAmp clean boost setting works great for this) but it has plenty going to FOH.
  18. D.A.R.K.


    Aug 20, 2003
    -in your opinion. lots of valid points, too.but as a rock and drumn'bass player, it's about moving air, and i will always want a good balance before a p.a. is used. and i don't ever want to perform in a stadium. PERIOD. (although i've mixed them)

    oops, put my responses in the quote. sorry.
  19. I sure hope so!


    From the FOH point of view, nothing is more of a pain in the ass than a deaf kid with a stack of (fill in the blank) that is so damn loud it drowns out the PA and floods the stage with basswash.

    When I do PA for the kiddie bands with the big stacks, I don't even bother to mic them. In fact, I don't even have to push the SUCK button on my console... they do it all from the stage. There is no way they will consider turning down, and no way I can balance them, so I let them suck.
  20. Most 'big-acts' know next to nothing about gear or mixing. The reason in-ears are so prevalent is that MOST bands could never have a balanced stage mix WITHOUT the PA/monitor system and volume wars ensued. If you've ever talked 'at' a monitor engineer from the 80-90's, it'll take about two seconds to see/hear. They'll be nearly deaf. In-ears are pretty much defacto industry mandated so artists aren't going deaf anymore, but they're not the pancea they are often made out to be.

    The comment about in-ears having better response than a bass cab is fantasy. Most don't put out ANY appreciable volume below 100Hz. Even the "biggest" systems still rely on some other form of bass reinforcement, usually shaker pads or hidden subs, BUT another ugly fact is that most people, bass players included, don't miss it because they don't really know what low frequency information is SUPPOSED to sound like. Give 'em a low mid bump at 150-250 Hz and they'll SWEAR they've got "bass." Ever played an Eden XLT cab?

    Call me old-fashioned, but if a band can't function onstage AND present a good sound WITHOUT relying on a montior engineer to present themselves back to them, they need to practice a WHOLE lot more. I know the reality doesn't reflect that, but I stand firm. Just as far too many 'bands' could never put out a single song without Pro-Tools, far too many can't 'play' as a band without $30k in monitoring and processing. If you think that's high, price an Aphex Dominator sometime. They're the standard for in-ear limiting; now multiply that by the number of mixes you're providing, and don't forget about all the OTHER processing (verb/delay/ etc).

    I'm not against in-ears, but the reality is, for most smaller guys they're LOT more dangerous than helpful, especially if you don't have a VERY good engineer to set up AND run them EVERY time. You can always step away from a wedge; if you have ONLY a beltpack and a bad mix, and you turn it down, you hear only PA echo.

    Have you HEARD Metallica live? :rolleyes: