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In ear monitoring - strange swoosh

Discussion in 'Live Sound [BG]' started by hangtalan, Apr 8, 2019.


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  1. hangtalan

    hangtalan

    May 5, 2013
    Switzerland
    Good evening all

    I used to hang out in the DB area, so I’m new here ... : )

    I’m suffering lots of pain with pedalboard/looper/iem stuff, and I’d like to ask about my biggest concern:

    We are doing in ear monitoring and I have a Shure PSM300. I can control background noise pretty well meanwhile by taking care of gains - but there is another type of noise that comes with the tone of the instrument, and that is an airy swoosh. The lower the pitch the louder it gets, down to the B the noise is as loud as the tone itself. The others in the band hear my swoosh of course, but their instruments do not produce noises like that - although one of them has a cheap t-bone iem system.

    I’m not able to figure out where that strange noise comes from. Maybe someone knows this kind of artefact? Or maybe someone knows how or with the help of whom I could try to find out?

    I’ll sincerely appreciate all supportive thoughts.

    Zsolt
     
  2. Maybe it's a phase issue. You may have two sources with your instrument in it feeding into your mix. For example, you might have your bass's channel going into your mix and also a subgroup in your mixer that has your bass in it too. Or it could be an effects loop that you've built with your pedals. Or if you've somehow routed your bass into the mixer's effects bus and are feeding that bus into your mix. If there is a slight delay between two sources it could create phasing problems.
     
  3. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011
    If other band members can hear the swoosh it has nothing to do with your IEM system. Is your bass setup on a wireless? I suggest soloing up your signal on the mixing console to see what it sounds like at the input to the channel strip.

    Is an expander gate being used anywhere in your signal path? If the mixer that is being used is digital, check what sort of dynamic processing is being used on your channel. Some mixers have two slots, and a compressor and expander gate could possibly be tricked into making a whooshing sound. When you are silent the compressor ramps
     
    s0c9 likes this.
  4. hangtalan

    hangtalan

    May 5, 2013
    Switzerland
    Thanks for support guys, I was actually suspecting that the problem is not even the IEM but in the pedalboard. And after having wired up lately, I encountered one thing that I really don’t understand. If you were willing to have an eye on it i’d dare to show you the design of it.
    The Bassbone switches between DB and BG. I use its FX Send/Return for more devices and I apply a second circuit of send/return out of the H9 - as suggested by Eventide in order to have the possibility to set effects on pre or post.
    Now what happens is, that the instrument input knob of the looper affects the main output level. If I turn that one down, there is no sound anymore – although I assumed that the Looper, being In a FX circuit , shouldn’t behave that way. There is something wrong in the Wiring, and I will really appreciate your opinion on it.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011
    Learn the difference between a series and parallel effects loop. It sounds like the loop is set up in series, so if you if you have a volume control in the loop in effects the entire signal.

    Is the loop switchable, I.E. can you switch the looper out of the signal path?
     
  6. hangtalan

    hangtalan

    May 5, 2013
    Switzerland
    I think we’re coming close ...
    I wired the looper into the fx send/return because I didn’t want it daisy chained in the main out. But this way the setup is even more unclear.
    The Bassbone has an overdrive/fx loop section, and one can switch to toggle the overdrive or the fx loop or both with the footswitch. But as soon the loop is active, I need to turn up the instrument level knob on the external looper to be able to play. It seems that I’m too dumb to understand this. I attached a pic of the Bassbone to show the knobs.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011

    If I understand, you are setting the Bassbone EFX switch to loop. So when you step on the OD button the loop is engaged but the Bassbone OD circuit is not activated. This inserts your RC505 into the loop. Now, you need to adjust the input and output level of the RC505 to play...this sounds normal to me. Adjust the RC505 so the level is correct and play. Sorry if I missed something.
     
  8. hangtalan

    hangtalan

    May 5, 2013
    Switzerland
    Sorry to bother you again. There is something that I obviously don’t get. The external looper is inserted into send/return of the Bassbone. This makes me think that it is a parallel loop. For my understanding this means that the signal is split in two halves, one of them being processed in the effects loop while the other remains untouched. But here when I turn the input level of the external looper all the way down (the output level knob of the external looper does not even have any effect at all), ALL the volume ist turned down, so that I cannot play at all. It behaves, as of it would be daisy chained between the OD and the Amp and can silence down the whole system.
     
  9. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011
    Pretty sure the effects loop is a series loop. Parallel loops are fairly unusual.
     
  10. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011
    s0c9 likes this.
  11. s0c9

    s0c9 Supporting Member

    Jan 9, 2014
    Ft.Worth/Dallas
    1964 Audio artist, Fractal Audio Beta Tester
    I glanced over this a couple of days ago, but just now looked at the PDF..
    Looks like the OP has utlilized SEND/RETURN from the bassbone with the H9's INPUT #1. Then used the H9's OUT-1 to loop thru a reverb unit and the RC505, back into the H9's IN-2 and then back top the Bassbone thru the H9's OUT-2, effectively using the H9 as a loop controller.
    I'm definitely NO expert in this space, but this strikes me as being a "leveling" nightmare waiting to happen.
    Sure you get flexibilty, but you will have to be vary careful with output gains from each device because they will determine input levels to the next device in line.
    Even if the H9, Reverb and RC505 are all "true bypass", I'm guessing you'd need to set level based on each device being "off" and adjust levels when they are switched on.
    I'm not familiar with the H9's routing capabilities.. so ..
     
  12. seilerbird

    seilerbird

    Apr 12, 2012
    You need to start disconnecting items from you chain and eventually you will find the culprit. Everyone here is just guessing.
     

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