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In order to fill it out 3 piece sound...

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by theshadow2001, Jan 22, 2006.


  1. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001

    Jun 17, 2004
    Ireland
    So I'm thinking muuuuuch later down the line when I finish my rig(is that an oxymoron?) that I will try using a crossover from a slave out of my amp and put everything above about....I dunno mabey 500Hz in a guitar preamp and then put some mild distortion on it and run that into the desk to fill out the sound whilst the guitarists is doing a solo. Sort of like an octaver put not as weird sounding. Set the tones a little differently and click it in and out as need be. Has anyone tried this or is it a good or a bad idea?
     
  2. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    ZZ Top (Dusty Hill) has something of that sort going on. When I saw them this summer there was something in the mix that seemed controlled/triggered by him. It made it sound like there was a rhythm player. I didn't bother hanging around after the show to ask him, lest I get stuck for two hours waiting for the parking lots to clear. Try checking their site, maybe it will mention what he's doing.
     
  3. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    sometimes i've run a sans amp after my preamp to one side of my poweramp that just goes to the 12" cab, while i leave the 15" cab "Dry" on the other side. In that case i set the SA for a bass cut, and a lot of "drive". it takes a bit of tweaking to get it to sound right.

    overall, i had the best results "filling out" a 3 piece by using an 8 string bass. i had to sell it, and i plan to get a hamer 12 sometime soon. not appropriate for every song, but when you use that, who needs a 2nd guitar player? heck, who needs ANY guitar players???:ninja:
     
  4. Chef

    Chef Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    May 23, 2004
    Columbia MO
    Staff Reviewer; Bass Gear Magazine
    I don't remember who, but I've read in Bass PLayer about several guys who have used this approach. It ain't really my bag, so I didn't pay too much attention, bugt it's been done, and it fills some guys sonic wishes...so do it!
     
  5. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001

    Jun 17, 2004
    Ireland
    I looked around the ZZtop site and I couldn't see much did a google and I couldn't see much their on it either.

    Im really trying to fill out the sound without octaves or chorus both of which I dont' think sound great and I think this might be a great way to go. Im not sure yet though. An 8 string bass is probably on the bottom of my list to buy.

    I remember seeing RHCP live and was amazed how full the sound was between verse and chorus and solos. There was no real drop.
     
  6. Ian Perge

    Ian Perge Supporting Member

    May 11, 2001
    Evansville, Indiana
    Not exactly a guy, but Amy ("Tosya" here on TB) from Clatter runs a triple-amped rig: an SWR SM-900 and Henry the 8x8 for clean bass, an SWR Super Redhead for effected, and a Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier for distorted "guitar" sounds. It completely fills up the sonics for a bass and drum two-piece, and sounds killer to boot. You can check out some audio and video samples here.
     
  7. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    not that i'm implying that RHCP do this but..........

    i've seen quite a few concerts of "big name" acts where it was very obvious that there was a 2nd guitar player hiding backstage. a hired gun, but needed to make it sound "just like the record"

    if those other acts (who shall remain nameless) had any integrity, they'd at least have the guy on stage with them. :rollno:
     
  8. Chef

    Chef Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    May 23, 2004
    Columbia MO
    Staff Reviewer; Bass Gear Magazine
    Ivan;
    Now you've discovered my "secret," and alas, you must die.
    I really don't play bass at all. It's just coincidence my fingers line up with anything resembling notes or rhythms...Please pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

    And watch your back, you never know when I'll be coming for you.




    chef
     
  9. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001

    Jun 17, 2004
    Ireland
    That is impressive, the way it can sound so full yet it's only one bass. It does look like theres a lot of technology lying around the stage though. But I guess there is proof that it can work very well indeed. One amp is enough for me though. For convenience just get racks and processors and what have you stick em into the desk and send some back thourgh a monitor.

    What are your thoughts on equipment which would work well to pull off this kind of thing? Effects processors amps etc...

    Edit:

    Just looked at the video again who's singing the backing vocals?!? maybe there's more going on off stage??
     
  10. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001

    Jun 17, 2004
    Ireland
    I don't believe they did this when I saw them. In fact John frusciante(spelling??) recorded a loop live and played over it for a song who's name I can't recall right now. Which would indicate that there wasn't anyone else. I'll look at the DVD and see though.
     
  11. Eric Cioe

    Eric Cioe

    Jun 4, 2001
    Missoula, MT
    Your idea isn't bad, but it could be simplified.

    Just get a crossover, and run the lows clean and the highs distorted. No need for full range bass when you're running distorted highs. Get that fat bottom and you're fine.
     
  12. ArwinH

    ArwinH run rabbit run

    Dec 1, 2005
    Southern California
    To fill out some sound during solos I have a big muff run with all the controls boosted. It loses all of the bottom end, and I run it into a boss ls2 mixed in with a dry signal. It can do a lot to help me out when working with trios.
     
  13. Peg_legs

    Peg_legs

    Nov 19, 2005
    Huntsville, AL
    Doug Pinnick of Static-X runs part of his signal through a Mesa guitar amp for the distortion.
     
  14. bsullivan

    bsullivan

    Dec 13, 2005
    Lansing, MI
    Doug Pinnick (or dUG as he likes to spell it now) from King's X does this.

    Here is an article in which his method is described:
    http://www.bassplayer.com/story.asp?sectioncode=21&storycode=11925

    From the article:
    "Tell us about your rig.
    I call it my Frankenstein monster. I’ve always admired and emulated the tone of the Who’s John Entwistle and Yes’s Chris Squire: “wiry” with a rich bite and clear definition. The concept is simple but achieving it has been challenging. I run a bass rig and a guitar amp together so I have dedicated amps for low and high frequencies. And I use a pick because it makes the attack more pronounced.
    I use an Ampeg SVP-BSP preamp and a Randall MT guitar head, which gives me natural-sounding distortion—I haven’t been able to find a pedal that sounds as good. I use a Boss GE-7 EQ to dial out the two lowest frequencies of the Randall’s signal so it doesn’t break up as much and sounds more like a guitar. I also run signals from both amps into a Yamaha 32-band EQ to remove the guitar amp’s low end and the bass amp’s high end. Then I run into a mixer to blend the two sounds and send them to an Ampeg power amp, then on to six Ampeg 8x10 cabs. I use a Boss TU-2 tuner as a switcher box to mute the guitar amp. It is quite a setup. However, I’ve recently acquired an Ashdown ABM 900 EVOII, which produces the tone I have been waiting for all in one amp. Not too high, not too low, not too ratty, not too clean—it’s perfect. My roadie will be pleased!"

    I don't know what style of music you are doing but this may be a pretty good place to start.
     
  15. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001

    Jun 17, 2004
    Ireland
    Yes thats true I could just get a crosover an avoid a guitar preamp dont want to spend a whole lot of money on this. Although a tone control would be cool to maybe help fill up more sonic space. But that can be bought as a pedal I suppose.

    However I want to leave my original bass signal intact and then have a bit of extra fiddly crap on top. Have full range clean bass plus some higher range stuff with a different tone some distortion and a possible time based effect like chorus I'm not too sure yet if I would use that though. Also the more soincially thats going on the better I would think

    Some people like to use chorus or distortion or octavers or a mixture to fill out the sound of a three piece. However I'm not big into these since I don't really like these effects on their own (aprat from distortion when needed and used well) But if my original bass sound stayed the same and there was stuff added in on top this would seem a better compromise to fill out the sound.

    My next question would be turning this on and off mid song without getting the whole PA to go POP. We all know what heppens when things get connected and disonnected when amps are on.
     
  16. Eric Cioe

    Eric Cioe

    Jun 4, 2001
    Missoula, MT
    If you wanted to totally be a badass, you could put the whole distorted/effected rig on a volume pedal.
     
  17. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001

    Jun 17, 2004
    Ireland
    Yes a volume pedal might work nicely. I do have a TU2 which I could use as well but it would seem to be wasting good battery to keep the rig off for a good part of a gig whilst I wouldnt need the extra fiddly bit.

    Maybe I'm waaay of but does boss have some sort of thing where you can switch between two different loops of effects. I'm really not sure what I'm talking about here but if it is what I think it is it might be very useful.


    Any thoughts on this? Do others agree or disagree or are impartial?
     
  18. Ian Perge

    Ian Perge Supporting Member

    May 11, 2001
    Evansville, Indiana
    Amy and Joe (drums) go into this in far greater detail on their live DVD, but Joe is also running electronic pads/triggers that allow him to play both non-acoustic drum and percussion sounds, as well as start off backing vocal tracks via MIDI. They make no bones about it - more akin to the "Rush" school of using technology for the best show possible.
     
  19. Chef

    Chef Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    May 23, 2004
    Columbia MO
    Staff Reviewer; Bass Gear Magazine
    Ian (as the thread derails), I used to have a Jazz Plus V just like your avatar, blueburst and all...sniff...just sold it about a month ago...

    back to your regularly scheduled thread.
     
  20. Ian Perge

    Ian Perge Supporting Member

    May 11, 2001
    Evansville, Indiana
    Chef - my JPV is actually black, I simply found this picture to be lovely and edited it down for an avatar. When I was looking around for one in '01, I bid on several of the reverse metallic blue and silverbursts but always managed to be outbid - those along with natural ash-bodies run much higher than the more-common black or midnight wine on the used market.

    Then again, I managed to get mine as close to mint as a 10-year-old bass that's not NOS can be for a steal, so I'm not complaining too much. ;) It's probably my favorite neck and string-spacing out of my collection, and one I'd be hard-pressed to part with.

    Umm... back to the thread topic, I run an SWR Mini Mo' with its "Dual Mode" engaged, which splits the signal to a post-EQ/pre-effects out and a post-everything out. That way I have a effected cab sonically filling up space while still having a pure "bass only" cab keeping the low end clean. Best of both worlds, and it works for me.