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In search of competent cabs

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Brendan, Dec 16, 2001.


  1. Brendan

    Brendan

    Jun 18, 2000
    Austin, TX
    Well...my band, a fairly agressive one at that, have been knocking around, practicing. That phrase does little to hide the manic hours we put in, 3 to 4 days a week...

    Anyway, I got my Moto-psycho guitarist, with a 120 tube head going through 6x12s, and a equally gonzo drummer who is both double bass happy, and interested in big drums, and alternate forms of percussion. Against this is my Eden WT-300 and an 8 ohm 410XLT. Because I'm only 8 ohms, I'm not getting my full 300 watts, and as a result, I'm keeping up, but nor really overpowering or anything.

    Now that you know the basics, here's the catch: we're thinking of bringing in a second percussionist, mostly out of our love of percussion, (like the polyrythmic latin, primitive, and big band type), not to mention our fondness of orchestration, like Opeth, Tiamat, ect, where you have heavily layered and highly orchestrated sounds. No, we're not worried about the obvious comparison w/Slipknot, though it's bound to happen.

    ANYWAY! I'm getting a job, and with job, comes $$$, so I'm trying to figure out what to do. It's given that I'm going to beef up the WT-300, by chaining it's pre into a poweramp, but then, what to do about the cab?
    I have a 410, at 8 ohms. So I'd like to get another 8, for an even 4...but I'm also wanting a bigger cab, as big as 8x10 to compensate for the dual percussion and maniac guitar, not to mention histrionic vocals. Does anyone even make a 8 ohm 810? Or do I have to go 4 ohm, and get that funky 2.65 (or whatever) impedance? The reason is that I'm awful tempted by the 12x10s. Partly, because I get the 4x10 for practice, and even home use, while I can link it up with an 8x10 for some mayhem live.

    Or, what would you do in this situation? I'm looking for info on my above thoughts, and input you may have. Unfortunaly, this isn't the smooth latin style, where a 410 might suffice. This is a full on Scud attack. So the dynamics are certainly chainged. And, as an extra headache, I play in ADGC, CGCF as my two main (and thus far only) tunings....
     
  2. Phat Ham

    Phat Ham

    Feb 13, 2000
    DC
    If you like the sound of the Eden 410-XLT you should get another one. You'll have 8 tens and with a beefier power amp you could push them to their max. Right now I have a Carvin R600 running 500 watts into an 8 ohm Eden 410-XLT and I have no problem keeping up with a Marshall 100 watt half stack. I can't imagine how loud adding a second 410XLT with more power would be.
     
  3. BigBohn

    BigBohn

    Sep 29, 2001
    WPB, Florida
    2 Eden 410XLTs would me massive, not to mention the volume you'd get out of that sucker. Its so loud that a deaf person could hear it. No sh*ttin' ya.

    Ok, now thats out of the way, heres another solution you could do. Since you got that low tuning goin' on, and the bass happy drummer, get an Eden 18" to accompany your 4x10. Pushin that extra bass will get you felt, which is what you want in your type of music, while you still get the strength of that 4x10. ALSO by adding the 18", you take some strain off of the 4x10 putting out bass, so it'll put out more volume in the mid range, which is where you get heard.
     
  4. Laddieo

    Laddieo

    Dec 16, 2001
    Aridzona
    I've been told that adding speakers adds volume faster than adding watts. Alot faster. Plus, by adding a cab, you'll get tons more efficiency out of your WT.

    IMO, I like the mix of a 410 and a 115 together. again IMO, 10" speakers seem to give better mids, while 15's hit the lows and highs better. Having both gives me a broader slice of the sound spectrum.

    But I think you'll get more "perceived volume" by adding 4 more 10s.

    According to Eden, the 115XLT will deal with 46hz compared to 50hz for the 410xlt. So you'll get better low fundamentals with a 15. But the 410 is louder (more sensitive) by 6db.

    Either way, if you're almost keeping up now, adding an 8 ohm cab will change your world for sure.

    Good luck
     
  5. Brendan

    Brendan

    Jun 18, 2000
    Austin, TX
    Bohn...don't get me started on that Bag End 2x18 :D

    Actually though, the Eden 18 IS 8 ohms...but do you think that it'd be enough to cut through, mids, thump or otherwise, two percussionist, a nut guitarist, and a vocalist? 4x10 and 18 though is a fairly common rig...

    It's something to consider...

    Anyone else?
     
  6. BigBohn

    BigBohn

    Sep 29, 2001
    WPB, Florida
    hehehe,:D At 7Hz, there be some major chicken head popping, and I mean the animal chicken head, not the other chicken head....:D

    Sure the 18" will pump out the low end, busting over that drummer, but not so sure about the guitarist. Just tell him to EQ down the bass, and all should be well. 18" are freakin' huge and sound much better and are more useful in large outdoor venues or indoor arenas. Do you play anything like that? If you don't, maybe check out another 4x10 for sheer volume...
     
  7. Brendan

    Brendan

    Jun 18, 2000
    Austin, TX
    That's another though. The power of an 18....vs. the volume of a 410? Though, addmittedly, it's going to be a lot more thump than anything given the dual percussion....

    Hey, this is a bit of info I'm short on...Eden gives it's 810s power handling at both 4 and 8 Omhs...does this mean it's one of the cabs that can switch? Or is it available in either? Or like the Megoliath, with mono 4, and stereo 8 ohms? (Sorry, that 810 is still prying at my brain, even though an 18 would be more sensible...)
     
  8. What I'm hearing is you want volume. The D-410XLT is among the very loudest of the commercials cabinets.

    If you go with a bad-ass power amp like a big QSC, you don't have to worry about 2 ohm loads (non-bridged). I personally don't like 2 ohm loads, but would run 2.67 no problem, but that is a personal thing with me. I don't like pushing anything to its absolute design limit.

    IMO, you will be happier with a pair of D-410XLT than a larger 8x10. Louder, too.
     
  9. SRSiegel

    SRSiegel Guest

    Sep 17, 2001
    Ann Arbor, Michigan
    you might wanna think about multiple larger drivers... push more air, and be felt (as was prior mentioned) maybe a 215 cab or better yet.... two? can you imagine that.... 4 15s and 4 10s.... anyone got a napkin?
     
  10. Brendan

    Brendan

    Jun 18, 2000
    Austin, TX
    But, how does one go about dealing with 3 cabs? Tri-amping is something I really don't see addressed much...or woudl I get two power amps? Or...ugh...this is why I stay out of the Amps forum!:D
     
  11. Sell the WT300, Buy a WT800, Buy another 8 ohm D-410XLT or a D-210XLT.
    You get portability, power galore, flexibility (Biamp, Fullrange), and you get your 8-10s at 4 ohms.
    I wouldn't go with adding a power amp. Just more to haul around and hook up.
     
  12. Brendan

    Brendan

    Jun 18, 2000
    Austin, TX
    Well, Bob, it's like this...


    $$$


    If I sold my WT-300, there's what, 4-500 bucks, Lets say I do good, and it's 500. Then the WT-800 is about 1500ish? Right? That's a whole 1000 I'm missing. However, a Carvin (just an example, I don't know the exact poweramp yet) DCM1500 is about 450. Then, depending on the cab, maybe a Rane crossover unit, in case of the 18, or 2x15 or somthing. Then that's about 400 to go towards a cab,

    SO: WT-800
    or: DCM1500, Rane (maybe) and another 400-550 toward and amp.

    This is all new of course, I'm not one to shirk pawn shops, Ebay, and second hand stores. But still...those would be new, with a warranty, in any event.
     
  13. Good point.
    You could probably get an 800 for $1,250. new at GC. You may find one on HC for $800. or so.
    I found a used (MINT) 8 ohm D410XLT for $500.+$50 shipping.
    But that was a rare find.
    I would have gone with a Berg 3-10 if I didn't find it.
    I heard good things about the DCM amps.
    A used Crown Powerbase 2 goes for $ 450.They got guts!
    I do believe though, that some amps lend themselves better to bass than others in their voicing. (Duck & Cover..)
    Either way, you won't go wrong.
     
  14. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    I'd say keep it simple Brendan ... another 8-ohm D-410XLT'll fix you right up. That little WT-300 will surprise you. Or you could save a few bucks with a D-210XLT. I play outdoors with six 10's and a WT-300, and it's plenty loud for my gig. Don't slide back into Carvin, for God(whatever you perceive it to be)'s sake. Eden RULES, and you know it.
     
  15. MikeyD

    MikeyD

    Sep 9, 2000
    I think I'm agreeing with other posters here. If you like the sound of tens, and the 410XLT in particular, a second one will give you a significant boost. Later on, when you need a further boost, the power handling of two of those cabinets will allow you to slave a power amp off your head. As currently discussed in other threads on power amps, there are lots of options. I should add that Carvin is a very good way to go if you are watching your wallet. If Eden's sensitivity figures are reasonable, two of those cabinets will give you at least 108 dB @ 1w/1m. Drive them with 1400 watts, and it will be very difficult to "survive" the 139 dB sonic bludgeoning you'll get directly in front of them.

    I myself would want the bigger vibration and throw of larger drivers, so would choose a 2x15 to complement a 4x10; but it wouldn't have the "cut-through" capability that two 4x10s would have.
    - Mike
     
  16. Brendan

    Brendan

    Jun 18, 2000
    Austin, TX
    MikeyD...that "sonic bludgeon" you mentioned...that's what I'm all about :D Overkill be thy name.

    And Munji...thus far, given all the advice, another 8 ohm XLT seems to be the wisest choice...but you're right, I would be surprised. But, Maybe I'll get around to it soon. My only question after all this is, will this kick enough butt? Will going into 4 ohms, with the dual 8s give me more volume per cab? Or will I just be driving them both at the same volume I am now, just with the perceived power increse due to the more air moving?

    Oh well. Like Munji said...I love Eden, and I know it!