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Irritating problem with Fender-style pegheads

Discussion in 'Hardware, Setup & Repair [BG]' started by tepes22b, Nov 23, 2005.


  1. tepes22b

    tepes22b

    Sep 15, 2005
    Maumee, OH
    I have a Warmoth 5-string and a Fender Geddy Lee Jazz Bass, both of which have the standard "no-angle" peghead (where string retainers are needed to keep tension on at least some of the strings). The problem is, when I string up, I notice that some strings tend to bounce out of the frets. It isn't a lack of thickness, since I use mediums like the stock Fenders that were on the Geddy J. I think it is the angle that the strings are going from the pegs to the nut. The "A" slips out on the Geddy and the low E, B, and G slip out on my Warmoth. Any tips on how to stop this? I know they weren't doing that when I got them.
     
  2. Rodent

    Rodent Supporting Member Commercial User

    Dec 20, 2004
    Upper Left Corner (Seattle)
    Player-Builder-Founder: Regenerate Guitar Works
    Could you clarify what you mean by "I notice that some strings tend to bounce out of the frets." this statement leaves me quite puzzled ...

    All the best,

    R
     
  3. tepes22b

    tepes22b

    Sep 15, 2005
    Maumee, OH
    OK, when I'm plucking on some of the strings that don't have retainers, the strings tend to slip out of the nut and that really messes things up. I can't truly bang on the A string open on my Fender bass. I think the string needs to come in from more of an angle to stay in the nut.
     
  4. pkr2

    pkr2

    Apr 28, 2000
    coastal N.C.
    It's hard to answer your question without seeing exactly what you have. The nut could be notched too shallow or the strings could be improperly wound onto the pegs.

    Are there enough turns around the peg to make the string exit from the bottom of the peg? You need 4 or five turns around the G peg and two or three turns around the B and E. Are all the strings under the string tree (retainer) that should be under it?

    The string should be buried in the nut notch to the point that a tiny bit less than half the string is above the top of the nut.

    Without pix that's all I know to suggest.
     
  5. tepes22b

    tepes22b

    Sep 15, 2005
    Maumee, OH
    The strings under the retainer aren't problematic, they're tight and always locked in. The A on my Geddy isn't slipping out at least since I tried to wind it better, but I only have perhaps one and a half winds on that string. Am I cutting them too short? And if so, what is a good rule of thumb for string cutting?
     
  6. maurilio

    maurilio Musician - Owner at Mo's Shop - Tech at Nordstrand Supporting Member

    May 25, 2003
    Studio City+Redlands, CA
    Endorsing artist: Nordstrand - Genzler Amplification - Sadowsky - Dunlops Strings - DR Strings
    Whoa brother, what do you have on your plucking hand.... hammers?

    A string that bouces out of the nut is something "almost" impossible!

    Three or four turns around the post is the "law"! At least on the A and E strings. (sorry for the "bad" pic!)

    Happy Holidays

    Mo'
     

    Attached Files:

  7. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    What Maurillo says. The A has to get at least 3 wrappings around the post, 4 if you can fit it. The E at least 2.
     
  8. pkr2

    pkr2

    Apr 28, 2000
    coastal N.C.
    One and a half turns is definitely not enough. Hard to come up with any kind of rule of thumb since each string takes a different number of turns because of the differing diameters.
    Just put enough turns on so that the lowest turn is as close to the peghead as you can get it without actually touching the peghead and you'll be OK. Don't cut the string untill you get it right so you can adjust the length if you need to.
     
  9. tepes22b

    tepes22b

    Sep 15, 2005
    Maumee, OH
    Well, that explains my problem entirely. Yeah, I do hit pretty hard (playing Rush was my primary way of learning bass technique), but the string tension of say, the A string is so low that at best it feels really sloppy when I gallop or do sixteenth notes, and slips out at worst. I'll have to try the three to four wraps next time I string up, since the string is going nowhere near the peghead at this point. I was spoiled by years of angled pegheads with my old Ibanez basses. Thanks a lot for the advice.
     
  10. pkr2

    pkr2

    Apr 28, 2000
    coastal N.C.
    You're welcome.
    When the tunes start sounding good, it"s hard not to dig in, huh? :)
     
  11. I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but do you wind your strings from the top-down on the pegs? By doing this, you keep more tension on the nut. This isn't very critical with angled headstocks, but more so with your straight one.

    Mag...
     
  12. pkr2

    pkr2

    Apr 28, 2000
    coastal N.C.
    Mag, I'm sure that somehow I'm overlooking the obvious, but how can you put a string on any other way? I guess that one could somehow put the string in the bottom of the post slot and carry the turns toward the top of the post.

    Is that what you mean? :confused:

    Not being critical, just curious. :)
     
  13. Yes, that's what I mean. Actually, I think it's easier (or more natural) to wind strings on from the bottom upwards. If you think about it, you cut the string to length, stick the end into the post's hole, bend it at a right-angle in the post, and that usually has the string starting at the bottom of the post's slot. You can lift it up a bit and start winding top to bottom, or bottom upwards.
    In this case it seems to me that it is more natural for the string to wind upwards. With an angled headstock, this doesn't really matter all that much because the angle of the headstock is already keeping plenty of string tension across the nut. With the fender-flat headstock, you could experience buzzing in the nut or even a string trying to pop out of the nut, depending on playing style. Of course this is the reason for the string retainers on two strings.
    I tend to wind mine top to bottom these days, but I used to always go bottom to top before. Most of the basses I've owned were angled-type, but a couple were Fender-type..

    I hoped I explained what I'm trying to say...

    Mag...
     
  14. pkr2

    pkr2

    Apr 28, 2000
    coastal N.C.
    "I hoped I explained what I'm trying to say..."

    Yes I can see that you're right- just never thought about it that way. Thanks for the explanation.

    I've wound down so long it just seems strange that anyone would put the windings at the top.
     
  15. Yeah, me too. On a non-angled headstock it's the only way to go.

    Mag....
     
  16. tepes22b

    tepes22b

    Sep 15, 2005
    Maumee, OH
    Well, I have actually wound from bottom-up before, starting with my old Ibanez basses. Bad habits are hard to break. Even though recently I figured out that was wrong, I still wasn't giving it enough wraps. I was going under the principle that too many wraps made tuners slip too much, but that's more of a problem with my six string Gibsons. I overdid it with the underwinds.