Dismiss Notice

Psst... Ready to join TalkBass and start posting, make new friends, sell your gear, and more?  Register your free account in 30 seconds.

is 2x10 enough for band practices?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Matt R Miller, Aug 30, 2003.


  1. Matt R Miller

    Matt R Miller

    Apr 27, 2003
    Wisconsin
    just as the title says. im looking into upgrading from my combo amp going into the world of heads and cabs. im thinking about a 2x10 and was just wondering if this was loud enough to be heard over drums and the like. i will be playing through a 300 watt head. thanks
     
  2. erik II

    erik II

    Jul 11, 2000
    Oslo, Norway
    That depends very much on the 2x10" cab's efficiency and general quality, and of course on how loud your band plays. Got any particular cab in mind?
     
  3. PunkerTrav

    PunkerTrav

    Jul 18, 2001
    Canada & USA
    Depending on how loud your band is, that might be pushing it. What kind of amps are the guitarists using? What kind of music do you play?

    Peace,
    Travis
     
  4. NeedMoreBass

    NeedMoreBass unregistered

    Feb 14, 2003
    If a 2x10" pushed with 300 watts is not enough in your practice room I hope you're saving for a hearing aid!!:eek:
     
  5. I use a 2x10 "detuned" cabinet of my own construction which handles 400w, and it is easily enough for my band, which consists of me, two guitarists (one uses a 150w Rivera through a 2x12 detuned, and the other uses a 150w Music Man through 4 12s) and a loud freaking drummer. Two secrets to making it work:
    1. A detuned 2x10 is louder than a sealed 4x10.
    2. I set my volume level first, and tell them to turn down if they can't hear me.
     
  6. Toasted

    Toasted

    May 26, 2003
    Leeds, UK
    by detuned do we read "open backed"

    i never really udnerstood the concept of a dutuned cabinet.


    and btw, my ashdown 2x10 150 watt combo is eough for our band practices, yes
     
  7. cwbassist

    cwbassist

    Aug 23, 2003
    illiniois
    I agree 150 watts is plenty for practices, heck I use 150 watts live and I get plenty of volume, but it may just be that I have a good engineer working the p.a.:bassist:
     
  8. jerry

    jerry Doesn't know BDO Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 13, 1999
    Hawaii
    I agree that if you need more than a 2/10 for rehearsal....you rehearse too loud. Once you get above a certain volume it's hard for singers to hear if they are singing in key and hear whatever other flaws the rehearsed material might have. Its always the guitar players fault:D
     
  9. doc540

    doc540

    Jul 28, 2003
    Beaumont, Texas
    (with a tip'o the hat and a hand on one hip)

    Tell ya what, pilgraam. Have your guitar player meet me in the center of town at high noon tomorrow. Tell'im I'll be totin' nuthin' but a lil'ol 210 Avatar.

    And tell'im to make sure he's said his prayers.

    :smug:
     
  10. Yes. But only as long as you have more than 200 watts going into it.
     
  11. Matt R Miller

    Matt R Miller

    Apr 27, 2003
    Wisconsin
    yes could you explain what detuned means. i was planning on a 2x10 avatar
     
  12. corinpills

    corinpills

    Nov 19, 2000
    Boston, MA
    It really depends on your band. If it's a screamin' reamin' rock and roll band and the drummer pounds the hell out of his drums, then probably not. One thing that will help, though, is amp placement. In a situation like that, you might not want to place your cabinet in the traditional ankle- blasting configuration (ie. on the floor, pointed at your legs). Get those speakers closer to your head- more like a personal monitor- and you'll be in better shape.
     
  13. Nick Wagner

    Nick Wagner

    Feb 24, 2003
    WA, USA
    Like what cornpills said, prop it up so its pointing up at a 45 degree angle. Itll project better.
     
  14. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    I use my WT-300 and a D-210XLT all the time at rehearsals, but we don't play loud. I never crank it past half way, and it's got only 200 watts or so in that configuration. Like others above have said, if you can't hear it, the others are playing WAY too loud.
     
  15. cjgallen

    cjgallen

    Oct 19, 2001
    I use my Avatar 2x10 and Eden wt400 for practice. They play loud, so I have to fiddle with the EQ to hear myself.
     
  16. "Detuned" merely refers to a rather simple, but tremendously effective, ported cabinet design. In a detuned cabinet, merely make twice as many speaker holes as you have speakers (so, for a 2x10 e.g., you have four holes). It just so happens that the proper area of air for a port to optimize the performance of the speakers at most frequency ranges is the area of the swept motion of the speaker (the part that moves, not including the rim). Additionally, this porting drops the effective frequency range of the speaker, so that my 2 Madison Knight 10'' speakers, which bottom in a sealed cabinet at 60hz, can now go low enough to handle low E.

    Why don't manufacturers do this? Well, first, this design uses way more wood, and thus costs way more money, and players who are used to four 10s and a 15 are going to have enormous cabinets (and, they will soon learn, vastly louder ones than the cabs they replaced). Second, it seems incomprehensible that a 2x10 could be louder and sound better than a 4x10, so the first major company to introduce these cabinets would be putting a lot of faith into the research skills and intelligence of the consumer, two things most companies rely on consumers not having. Third: do you know for how much more you can sell a body with a Celestion in it than one that holds only air? A lot! And do you know how much that Celestion costs a major manufacturer? Not a lot. So profit margins would suffer.

    Regardless, the design is solid sounding. I am running through an Ernie Ball Audiophile series head, and it makes the head, which has a tube pre, sound like all tube, and those two tens, which cost me $29 per, shake the freaking ground, and sound great doing it. I shall post pics and soundclips of my gear soon, so you don't have to just believe me.

    For further info, check out these two sites:

    www.londonpower.com

    Kevin Connor, proprietor of the London Power company, popularized the detuned design. This is his site.

    www.steelsound.com
    www.madisonspeakers.com

    Great sounding, American-made speakers, cheap. First site is the retailer, second is the manufacturer.

    I recommend to everyone doing exactly what I did: Do It Yourself. It took a solid couple of evenings to do, but now I've got a sweet cabinet, that I know is well-made and durable, which sounds awesome, and which looks almost exactly like I hoped it would.

    Peace,
    Josh Solberg
     
  17. doc540

    doc540

    Jul 28, 2003
    Beaumont, Texas
    "...the first major company to introduce these cabinets would be putting a lot of faith into the research skills and intelligence of the consumer, two things most companies rely on consumers not having."

    Hey, I resemble that demographic! Do they have me pegged or what??

    :D
     
  18. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    I'm at work so I can't go check out those links right now, BUT.........

    Regardless of how nany vents your use, My understanding of vented cab design is that you have to tune the box to a specific frequency. Once that is determined, you can achieve that frequency with several different combinations of port numbers, diameters, and lengths. Seems to me that all this "detuning "does is lower the tuning frequency of the box.

    So your speakers with a Fs of 60Hz now has a Fb of 40Hz. So what? The port doesn't do anything until the speakers starts producing frequencies at Fb.

    Sounds like a whole bunch of marketing half-truths to me.
     
  19. You have misapprehended my explanation of the benefits of this design, so I shall now quote Kevin O'Connor, author of the book, London Power DIY Speaker Cabinets for Musical Instrument Applications:

    ''What is the best cabinet design? Something between a large sealed cabinet and a slightly smaller but still large bass reflex design: a 'detuned' cabinet with a single driver. This is essentially a cabinet built for two identical drivers with one driver left out and its mounting hole left open. The port is not tuned to any specific frequency but instead allows a broad range of frequencies to be reversed through the shallow duct. Instead of having a brick wall bass roll-off, the low end rolls off gradually but slightly slower than the raw driver. The large cabinet does not sound boxey so mids and highs sound three-dimensional, unlike a sealed cabinet which sounds comparatively sterile... The closed back gives consistent sound regardless of room placement; therefore, the port cannot be on the back...''

    This is just a summary, but if you want to read the whole theory, please feel free to get the book. I don't know why these would be ''marketing half-truths'', because this is a book for do-it-yourselfers, so the author isn't marketing anything. And your comment ''seems to me that all this 'detuning' does is lower the tuning frequency of the box,'' seems only to apply to cabinets with tuned ports.

    LATronics,
    Josh Solberg
     
  20. Fuzzbass

    Fuzzbass P5 with overdrive Supporting Member

    Back to the original question. Depends on two major factors:

    1) How loud is your band?
    2) How large is your rehearsal space?

    A single Ampeg 2x10 was enough for me at loud rehearsals (due to a LOUD drummer) in a small basement. But a pair of 2x10 cabs was necessary to keep up with that same band at gigs (I had no PA support).