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Is a GK 400RB II too small for a Aguilar gs-112

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Wes Whitmore, Jan 12, 2004.


  1. Wes Whitmore

    Wes Whitmore Supporting Member

    Mar 10, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Anyone using the 400RB II with either one or two gs-112s (preferably one, but I could always expand)? I am piecing a modular rack rig together, and I want to use another GK head besides the 1001RB that is in my 2x10 combo. I would rather just leave the combo together so I can still use it. Is there enough power in the little 400RB? Any major downfalls in the 400RB besides not being biampable? I don't use the tweeter in my combo. I would really like to save the $120 over the 700RB if the 400 will handle most of the practices. I could haul in my combo and extension 15" if I needed a ton of volume, but that has never happened yet. For reference, I play rock and punk (STP, Foo Fighters, Blink, Live, Green day, Alice in Chains, etc), but my 2x10 combo stays well below 11 o'clock on both the volume and the woofer, with no boost at all.
    Just let me know what works for you, and your environment.
    Thanks,
    Wes
     
  2. Wes Whitmore

    Wes Whitmore Supporting Member

    Mar 10, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    My overall goal is finding a good 12" cab that I can carry in one hand to practices. The bass will be on my back in a really nice rockbag, and the head will be in a SKB roto x case in the other hand. It just seems so much easier to get through the doorways of houses than my GK2x10 combo. The Avatar CB112 looks like another great candidate, but I am almost positive that the 400RB wont power it, especially at 8 ohms...
    Wes
     
  3. Ralphdaddy

    Ralphdaddy Supporting Member

    Nov 6, 2003
    Chicago, Illinois
    It might work man, I've got a 400RB IV I'm using to power an Avatar B410 and it thunders pretty well for such a small head, admittedly my cab is a 4 ohm, but I turn the volume halfway on the head, with the master at half and boost at 3/4. Give it a shot before you drop an extra 110. And the Avatar cabs are awesome man, I highly recommend them.
     
  4. marklinca

    marklinca

    Nov 11, 2003
    So Cal
    The Aguilar GS112 is 8 ohm, 300w max rated - but the sensitivity is 102 dB, which is pretty darn efficient. I think a 400RBii is 200w @ 4 ohms, 125W @ 8 ohms. The combination would sound fine because of the cab efficiency, but you wouldn't be able to realize the full potential out of the GS112. I would guess that a GS112 is as good a choice as any cab if you have a 400RBii already, but not vice-versa.

    You wouldn't be able to utilize the bi-amp of a 700RB on a GS112 anyway (or most cabs, for that matter), so no bi-amp on the 400RB is no big loss.

    The 700RB (the old version) would get you up to 380w @ 4, 230w @ 8. The 230w would probably get the GS112 closer to it's sweet spot, and would also have some more gusto (190w each) with a pair of GS112s. If I was in your position, and you might pick up a second GS112 later, I would definitely go for the 700RB.

    I know a semi-pro bassist who routinely powers an Eden 210T with the 100w output channel from his 800RB, so such a feat is not unheard of. Then again, there are people on this forum who swear that anything below 500w into a GS112 is unwise.
     
  5. Woodboy

    Woodboy

    Jun 9, 2003
    St. Louis, MO
    A GK 400 head and an Aggie 112 isn't much more portable than your 210 combo. The 210 would give you a bigger sound. Just figure the radiating area of 2 10" speakers compared to 1 12" speaker. I had a GS112 that I powered with a GK 700RB (first series) and it was pretty anemic with only 250 watts at 8 ohms. It couldn't keep up with two guitars and a drummer at moderate practice levels. Sounds like you have a great set-up already: a high powered, portable 210 combo with a 15" extension cab that will almost double your wattage when used together.
     
  6. Wes Whitmore

    Wes Whitmore Supporting Member

    Mar 10, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    I actually do not own any of this second system yet. I am very happy with my 1001RB head that I have now, I would just really like to be able to leave it in the combo for when I need it. I don't use the 50 watt tweeter amp at all(unlike the 800, I can't power any woofers with it since it is only a 5K and up tweeter output). I also don't use much of the power because the GK 2x10 is super efficient as well. I think I just bought to big of a first rig. I have the combo, plus a GK 15" RBH extension cab (well, I also have a SWR big ben 18, which is doing nothing). I don't know why I have such a big rig. I have never gotten into the volume at all. Must have been a bad case of GAS. We run in ears on stage, and I own the PA, so we have always had dual 18s for extra support. I could easily get by without any cab on stage. But in practice, it's all in the bass cab. Still, all I need is the 2x10 combo turned up well below half power. The 15 only gets used when practice is at my house, mainly because I have it here and I need to use it sometime to justify the $600 outlay. The power gets turned down when I add the cab.
    So this led me to trying a completey different approach. I want something I can carry in one trip without any effort. The gig bag has now freed up my hands. Like mentioned before, the combo is sweet, but is wider than doorways when I am hanging on the handles, and borderline heavy down a flight of stairs when I can't see the next step in front of me. If I could just grab something in each hand, throw the bass on my back like a backback, I would be much happier. I could always take the combo to gigs if I truly needed it for some reason. I could also put the 400 in the combo. It seems to be loosing any purpose for me though besides how good it sounds. At the same time, it is all in one cabinate, so I only am moving one really heavy object, and it has wheels for most of the trip. I guess it all comes down to the stairs, which every practice facility I use has...
    Sorry for the rambling.
    Wes
     
  7. tornadobass

    tornadobass Supporting Member

    Nov 20, 2000
    Iowa City, Iowa
    Endorsing Artist: Black Diamond & SuperSensitive strings
    Two thoughts...first, the one-trip carry is over-rated. You carry in gear for just a few minutes, but play a gig or practice for a few hours. Doesn't pay to compromise on the long haul.

    Second, that said, I recently went from using an SWR SM400S in a rack with a Goliath II 410 cab to a 700RB in an X-rack and an Avatar CB112. I *can* carry the new rig in one trip, especially with a utility cart. I haven't been short on power and have gained a bit of stage space and some handy features in the deal.
     
  8. Mattski

    Mattski

    Jan 6, 2003
    Cleveland, OH
    I have found that the 400RBs are pretty powerfull for their rating. I love mine for the light weight and portability factor. (best $150 I've ever spent) It is my spare and practice head and it is very capable and sounds great. I have been considering getting a GS112 or the Avatar 112 to have a mini portable system. (I think you can get the Avatar in a 4 ohm version, which would be great!)
     
  9. NeedMoreBass

    NeedMoreBass unregistered

    Feb 14, 2003
    Wes,
    I've tried a number of portable cabs and the Bergantino is the best for portability and performance. Definitely what you want if you're looking for a cab that's easy to handle with one hand because it's less ackward to carry with one hand as the Aggie. Sounds great with my Clarus with 120 watts so it should be fine with a 400RB. You may find more uses for it than just a practice cab especially if you have 2 of them.

    Ed Friedland says "I can't say enough good things about Bergantino. They are the absolute best bass cabinets in the world. I use an HT112 for 90% of all gigs whether 5 string electric or acoustic jazz. It always gives me the best sound I've ever had. When the going gets loud, (the other 10%) I use two stacked, and... fuggehdaboudit!"

    http://www.bergantino.com/product.htm
     
  10. Wes Whitmore

    Wes Whitmore Supporting Member

    Mar 10, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    I will look into the Berg cab. I have never actually looked at them because I assumed they were very pricey.
    I don't think that moving from a 2x10 to a single 12 is a compromise, just to try to get it more portable. My 2x10 would be portable if it had different dementions. It is just so wide.
    The Avatar 112 is really tall, and almost 2x as big as the Aguilar. Is it even possible to carry that thing with one hand? How is the balancing.
    I will look at the Berg.
    Lastly, the main reason I am looking at an additional head is because a GK combo doesn't come with the rails and the metal part plate which makes up the top and sides. You will be surprised in how expensive that part can be from GK. It was something close to $100. That seemed steep. The 400RB would be a smarter buy, and give me a backup amp.
    Thanks,
    Wes
     
  11. NeedMoreBass

    NeedMoreBass unregistered

    Feb 14, 2003
    Yes they are little pricey, but you may be interested in selling everything else and having 2 Bergs instead(One HT112 and one EX112). They will cover your big and small situations with no problem. A real nice rig would be 2 Bergs and the new GK1001RB-II. Portable and powerful.:bassist:
     
  12. Wes Whitmore

    Wes Whitmore Supporting Member

    Mar 10, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Needmore,
    Why would you get two different cabs? Just to cover a broader freq range? It is always hard to sell equipment, especially when it isn't very old. You always seem to loose your *ss on the deal. I am more into collecting stuff...
    Wes
     
  13. NeedMoreBass

    NeedMoreBass unregistered

    Feb 14, 2003
    The EX and the HT are the same cabs except the HT has the horn. Most people get one of each because one horn is enough and it'll save you some dough over buying 2 cabs with horns. I realize I gave you the best case scenario but I understand that the ideal rig doesn't always fit in your budget, but it's something to shoot for. Having one small powerful portable head and one or two portable cabs to fit any playing situation is the way a lot of today's players are going.
     
  14. Wes Whitmore

    Wes Whitmore Supporting Member

    Mar 10, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    I am always open to different approaches. It wasn't like my GK rig wasn't expensive. I got $1300 in the combo, and $600 in the extension cab. I didn't know about anything else that wasn't available at GC. Now, there is no way to recover the money sunk into it. I am happy with teh quality and sound, I just would like a little more portability.
    Wes
     
  15. NeedMoreBass

    NeedMoreBass unregistered

    Feb 14, 2003
  16. Wes Whitmore

    Wes Whitmore Supporting Member

    Mar 10, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Wow, those are tiny. Have you heard them personally? That defies logic! You would think it would have a very poor freq extension.
    Wes
     
  17. Craig Garfinkel

    Craig Garfinkel

    Aug 25, 2000
    Hartford, CT
    Endorsing Artist: Sadowsky Guitars
    Wes,

    I use two GS112s on 90% of my gigs, and I recently picked up a 700rb-II for rehearsals and gigs I just don't want to shlep my 50 lb. Aguilar DB750 to. Here's my $0.02...

    Spend the extra $120 on the 700rb-II.

    Bergantino's are excellent cabs, but since you never use your tweeter in your combo, I can assume you don't dig a "crisp" sound? The Bergie's are brighter sounding than the Aggies. I couldn't find an accurate "street price" on the Bergantino, but they're definitely more than the Aguilars. With two cabs, you'll definitely save at least the $120 you need for more power, maybe even on a single cab.

    IME, the Flite cabinets sound like total crap. They sound as light as they weigh. Lighter even. Stay away.
     
  18. Wes Whitmore

    Wes Whitmore Supporting Member

    Mar 10, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    This is what this forum is all about! Thanks Craig.
    It is a considerable cost savings to get the Avatar 112. I could get those metal plates from GK and have a pretty good portable system for under $300 (I already have an empty 4 space SKB and Furman). That still might be a good way to go. I could probably get some metal from the hardware store and bend my own top/side piece, paint it black, and call it the day. It only takes 5 minutes to take it out of the combo, so I think I could probably give that much effort if I want to load it back in for a gig into the combo. I just don't want to dump $600 into a 700RB when I have a very good amp sitting in my basement. It looks like the portability comes from the cab arangement. If the Aggie is worth the extra $200 (which is the same price as an additional avatar 1x12), then I have no problem getting it. It's half the size, and apparently sounds pretty darn good. But the avatar 112 has a great rep in this forum, especially for the cash.

    Enough of my indecisiveness. I have a great head, so I am going to use it. $80 is less than $500, anyway you look at it. It leaves money to invest in better cabs. It will allow me to use any combination of my 2x10 combo, my GK RBH115, my SWR Big Ben 18, and my very portable 12" cab that I haven't decided on yet...

    Isn't shopping most of the fun with GAS?

    Tornado, can you describe your thoughts on carrying the avatar cab around, when not on a cart. How bulky does it seem? That cab is about half the size of my Big Ben, but also half the weight.
    Craig, Do you need both GS-112s for your practices? Is two all you would ever need?
    Thanks,
    Wes
     
  19. Chaputa

    Chaputa Bass-Not just fo eatin anymore

    Well... I have an old GK400RB...not II's or III's about it... and using that with one GS112 is my small setup that I use for low volume situations. It evern works(but VERY hard) in my practice seesions w/ a very loud drummer (I wouldn't suggest it for long periods of time). The tone is great and the volume is fine. I also use the GS112 through an Aggie DB659 w/ 400 watts RMS going to it, and I can't say that I hear much of a diff except at high levels. The GS112 is one sweet, efficient cab.

    With that all said... Craig is right... for expandability and the extra headroom, for $120, the 700's probably worth the extra...but if you don't have the scratch...the 400RB/GS112 situation is VERY nice!
     
  20. Craig Garfinkel

    Craig Garfinkel

    Aug 25, 2000
    Hartford, CT
    Endorsing Artist: Sadowsky Guitars
    Wes,

    Before you DIY the "case" for your 1001rb from the combo, why not PM gallienkrueger here at TB, aka Daniel, who works for GK? He'll hook you up with the best way to accomplish your task. I'd do that right away, as I'm sure he's getting ready for NAMM.

    It would be a great suggestion to make to GK to construct the combo with a "remove-it-and-use-it" head a la the Mesa Walkabout.