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Is Bi-Amp a solution?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Milo Duane, May 1, 2006.


  1. Milo Duane

    Milo Duane

    Apr 15, 2006
    Hi.. I got 2 old "small amp heads": Warwick ProfetIV(400W)(4ohms) and Warwick Sonic II(200W)(4ohms)

    Please give me some advice to maximise the use of these two amps. I got 2 cabinets Both 8ohms each rated 400watts RMS, the one is 15" and the other one is 2x10" + horn.

    My band mate says just use the ProfetIV on 2 cabinets, linking one cabinet to another and just throw the old sonicII on junk shop.. eheh...

    I'm not sure about it, would that make the 2 cabs in series or in parallel? If' it's in series I'm worried that it'll raise the impedance and hold back my amp on giving it's appropriate power, am I wrong? If it's paralleled, I'll get the exact net impedance for my amp but still power would be divided for two. And not to mention that i find it hard to balance the power distrubution(level wise) on two cabinets running on one amp.

    I'm thinking that I could use each amp head on each cabinet( one head to one cab) that I might be able to balance the level on two cabs. I'm aware that I'd still won't get more power out of it because both cabs have 8ohms impedance. But Thinking of it's advantage over using just one amp on two cabs which is levelling of each cab volume would you guys think it's a good Idea or not?

    Most Of you might say to just get rid of the two amp heads and maybe as well as the cabs and get better ones that would better suit my needs. But I just can't afford to do that now, Just Bought my new 6stringer, so I'm thinking to maximise the use of these gears for the mean time to get at least a decent sound on my session gigs(so I could save money to buy new ones). On gigs we've got all lined in on PA's anyway, most that I loose any ways are the subsonics and several Lows. Which set up would you think will compensate for this, limited on this gears:

    Amp Heads
    Warwick ProfetIV(400W)(4ohms)
    Warwick Sonic II(200W)(4ohms)

    Warwick Cab1
    2x10" Eminence Custom Speakers
    1 HF horn with attenuator
    400 watts RMS
    Frequency Response: (-3dB) 55 - 15k
    Low Frequency: (-10dB) 48 Hz
    Sensitivity: (1W/1M) 99 dB
    Impedance: 8 ohms
    X-over (horn high pass) 4,5 kHz
    Vented cabinet

    Warwick Cab2
    1x15" Neodymium Speaker
    400 watts RMS
    Frequency Response: (-3dB) 45 - 5k
    Low Frequency: (-10dB) 36 Hz
    Impedance: 8 ohms
    Vented cabinet
    Weight: 21 kg
    Dimensions: 540 x 640 x 365 mm (HxWxD)

    sorry for the long post, just want to make sure I explained it well.... please help me out mates!!!
     
  2. Milo Duane

    Milo Duane

    Apr 15, 2006
    bump.. :)
     
  3. Kael

    Kael

    Dec 26, 2004
    Oklahoma City
    If you daisy chain your 210 and 115 you will be driving your 400 watt head at 4 ohms. Each cab will be getting 200 watts. If you biamp it, whichever cab you use the 400 watt head with will recieve a little more than 200 watts (whatever the head produces at 8 ohms) and the other cabinet will get whatever the 200 watt head produces at 8 ohms (ie: less than 200 watts).

    If you are looking to EQ these two cabinets differently, then biamp. Otherwise I'd take your band mate's advice and just use the 400 watt head. Less crap to move, and much less likely to blow a cab by driving that 200 watt head harder trying to make their volumes "equal". Keep the 200 watt head as a backup or sell it.

    PS: plugging one cab into another will be parallel. You need special cables to run in series. Since there is usually no benefit to running series, they aren't terribly common.
     
  4. Milo Duane

    Milo Duane

    Apr 15, 2006
    thanx Kael.. It's really helpful.

    But something concerns me though.

    ---- Last night, I used my sonicII together with my 2x10" +HFhorn (with level enough for a usual small size gig venue )and I tried to play my bass(6) on its everynote from LowB(openBstring) to highC(24thFret Cstring) with my EQ just flat(both guitar and amp head). From E(openE) going up to highest C, the cab responded very well.. But from LowB(open) going up to E(5thFret Bstring), the driver of the cab started to sound distorted and it seems that the actual cone would pop out of the box.. eheh!! Then I tried again, this time, I turn the Master volume on amp down a bit and I got a balanced result even with the previous notes that I had problem with (but I reckon the fundamental frequencies this time is not being produced by cabinet and my brain's only interpolating).

    Cut story shorth, is there any way that Icould filter very Low frequencies from going to the 2x10" to prevent it from happening again, and as well as filtering unnecessary higher frequencies to the 15" one, using one amp Head? That's the reason I've come to think of using both amps for me to cut very low freq on amp1 for 2x10" cab and cut few high freq on amp2 for 15" cab. I did like to run just one amp as you said, because it would be great for my amp, plus less work.. eheh... so my only concern now is if it's possible to filter freqs on one amp for 2 cabs..

    Thanx so much.. I really appreciate your suggestions..
     
  5. Kael

    Kael

    Dec 26, 2004
    Oklahoma City
    Well, you could use both heads to rig up a biamp system. I'd make sure that I used the 200 watt head for cutting lows to the 210 and the 400 watt head to cut highs to the 115. Lows take more juice so that would help avoid blowing your 210.

    I still think that I would prefer to run both cabs full range, but that is just my preferences. Cut enough lows to save your speakers and run the sucker full range. If I really wanted to biamp, I would sell off both heads and get a biamp friendly preamp (either two seperately EQ'able channels w/seperate outputs, or some sort of internally settable crossover) plus an el'cheapo stereo power amp. Run lows through one side and highs through the other. It will probably run less weight and might even save you a rack space if the preamp is a one spacer.
     
  6. Milo Duane

    Milo Duane

    Apr 15, 2006
    Wow! That's A really good sugestion about buying the pre-amp and thingies. I might do that Later on, after I save enoguh money(selling both of my old amps wont make up for that eheh)..

    Any sugestions on specific brand and model for those? I really like the look of warwick and its construction do they have those? (I dream to be a Warwick endorser wahahaha)

    Thanx Kael!
     
  7. Milo Duane

    Milo Duane

    Apr 15, 2006
    bump :)
     
  8. joelb79

    joelb79

    Mar 22, 2006
    Lansing, Michigan
    if your really wanting to bi-amp, then you need a different setup. Bi-amp usualy means that you run frequencies below a certain point to once speaker, and the other frequencies to another cab.

    In my case, my hartke 7000 runs 170hz and below to a 15" speaker, and 170 and above to a 2x10. When i turn up the amplifier, sure i still hear notes above and below that point, which keeps the 2x10 from breaking up ANY when i play loud and leaves the 15" to handle the low notes from my E string.

    If you run 2 heads, your are basicaly just EQing things differently. While this can produce similar results and sound different, it wont be the same ammount of headroom. Your one head which is 200 watts will be putting out very little to the 2x10 or 15 (whichever you run it on), so your percieved volume will not be more than you are getting right now, infact it may be lower.

    If your 210 cant handle the lows from your B, then you have one of 2 problems going on: Too Low Power to put out those notes at that volume, or a Low quality 210. My guess, too little power.

    You would be best served with a higher power head to run your rig. If you really wanted to filter out the notes from the 210, you could design a custom crossover for the cabinet that would filter out the lows. But again, your just wasting power to do that. Which leads me back to finding a new head.

    By the way, how do you like your Warwick Heads? i'm debating getting the Pro-Fet 5.1 for my 210/115 setup (which im replacing with an avatar B410 Neo).
     
  9. Milo Duane

    Milo Duane

    Apr 15, 2006
    sorry for the late response... Just got busy on rehearsal and a gig. Well got good news(sort of)..

    Thanx to all your suggestions guys, so what I did is that I used my Profet IV to run full range on my new Warwick 411Pro(4x10"+HF horn) that my friend sold me cheap and my Warwick 115... Both sounded balanced..... then I used my Sonic II to drive my Warwick 210Pro.... I cut the Lows on that and raised mid highs instead.

    The result... wow... I'm really satisfied.... I used a D.I. box to split my bass signal into 2 balanced output going to both amplifiers... then I used the Balanced Pre/Post DI out on ProfetIV going to the PA system, and it gave me advantage of using "Post" out to the PA so I am having the same switching EQ on house speakers the same as on my cabinets..

    I am soooo happy!... (at least for now) eheheheh

    So thanx A lot! I might put photos of my new setup on the other thread.... eheheh... Rock on!!!
     
  10. Milo Duane

    Milo Duane

    Apr 15, 2006
    TO: JOELb79

    hey sorry mate! I just got back online... gotten too busy....

    About the warwick( I hope I wasnt too late) IMO got an attitude that I am looking for and flexible in terms of the EQ(well I havent tried them all) but the main thing I guess for me is the look for it's construction... because I've tried several amps including warwick, and I could make them sound the same if all have at least 8band EQ and tone shaper, and that's by playing with those... so soundwise I don't have any favourite...

    Powerwise, I won't be good to answer that, coz Im not power maniac dude.. eheh... as long as I could sound balanced and satisfied on stage, that's enough for me...

    So I guess to sum up, I chose warwick mainly for it's "physical construction"... it just appeals to me... I don't really find anything special on warwicks sound compare to the same level models on other brands...

    I hope at least I gave you a bit of I idea, why I chose warwick amps.. eheheh!
     
  11. Milo Duane

    Milo Duane

    Apr 15, 2006
    So now here's how I set up my amps and cabs...

    BASS--> Active DI Box--> Amp1--> 2x10"+HF Horn
    '--> Amp2--> 4x10"+HF Horn
    l '--> 1x15"
    '-----> PA system Thru
    Amp's DI out(Pre/Post)

    Now I got a decent sound... I'm satisfied!

    MyUsualStageSetUp.
     

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