Is My Live Tone Better... or Worse?

[Elmstreet]

I was just uploading a clip of our band playing this past weekend and I thought "man my tone sounds good here". After that I was curious what some of the older clips sounded like, so I went down memory lane and checked out some clips from a few months ago.

I switched over to bass from guitar about a year ago to play with this band, and ~6 months after that we played our first gig. For me this was my first gig I'd ever played, but the other guys had more experience.

At the time of the clip where we play Shine, I had little to no experience with live sound, eq, compressors, etc. My rig was simple, and I had looked up a video that said to cut through the mix turn up your mids so that's what I did and I left everything else flat. We hired a sound guy to help us with sound b/c we didn't even have a PA at this point, he said the bass sounded fine.

The next clip is a few months later at a nicer venue with an inhouse sound engineer. By this time I had a better understanding of live sound and I had gotten a better amp, different bass, and had a compressor/preamp.

The third clip is this past weekend playing a smaller bar where we ran our own sound. At this point I have the most experience of all the 3 clips, and I am running the same amp/compressor/preamp as the 2nd clip but EQ'd very different (I was going for that ampeg sound).

I definitely think I sound the best in the 3rd and most recent clip, and there has been about 5 months of researching, purchases, experience between the 1st and the 3rd video.

My question is, what do you guys think? Is it a noticeable improvement? I know this is very subjective, but I was curious what some other bass players thought.

The videos were all recorded on phones in different rooms/distances so this is by no means a great way to compare. I'm just going off of how the crappy phone audio recordings because that's all I have.

Clip 1 - Shine

Amp: Ampeg PF350 w/ a 410 and 115 cab. (Mids boosted, bass and treble flat)
Signal Chain: Bass > Tuner pedal > DI out of amp to PA
Bass: Parts PJ bass I built with SD Quarter pounder pickups.

Clip 2 - In the Meantime

Amp: Fender Rumble 500 (Low and high mids boosted, bass/treble flat)
Signal Chain: Bass > Tuner > MXR M87 > Sansamp VT Bass DI (set to mimic SVT) to front of amp
Bass: Spector NS Pulse 4 w/ active EMGs, onboard preamp flat

Clip 3 - Dead & Bloated

Amp: Fender Rumble 500 (Low mids cut, high mids boosted, bass flat, treble cut, contour and vintage button pressed)
Signal Chain: Bass > Tuner > MXR M87 > Sansamp VT Bass DI (set to mimic SVT) straight to PA, unaffected parallel signal out of pedal to amp.
Bass: Same parts bass with newer Dimarzio Relentless PJ pickups and different neck

Thanks for reading!

 

[Elmstreet]

Bump because I would love some feedback

 

[drpepper]

I think they all have positives to them. Some good stuff.

The second one sounds best to me, but how much of that's due to the fat house sound?

Also, these are cell phone/camcorder mic videos? I don't know how much stock you can put in the comparisons if it's not the same song at the same venue with the same foh sound...at minimum.

Edit: Just to be clear in case it came across wrong, that's not say that I think it's pointless. I also use YouTube for my collection of videos so they're saved, and out of everything I have only a very few of the live videos are board recordings and only one is a multi-track mix. You have what you have and do with it what you can.

One thing you might consider is getting a Zoom video recorder to capture more consistent sound in open mic recordings. If you take a look at my channel, for reference, the videos labeled "031321" are from a show where the recording was on one of those, and I find the sound markedly better than a run of the mill cell phone recording. They're not terribly expensive at all and can be a great way to document your journey. That prompted me in that direction, but I just never made a move on it.

 

[Elmstreet]

I think they all have positives to them. Some good stuff.

The second one sounds best to me, but how much of that's due to the fat house sound?

Also, these are cell phone/camcorder mic videos? I don't know how much stock you can put in the comparisons if it's not the same song at the same venue with the same foh sound...at minimum.

Edit: Just to be clear in case it came across wrong, that's not say that I think it's pointless. I also use YouTube for my collection of videos so they're saved, and out of everything I have only a very few of the live videos are board recordings and only one is a multi-track mix. You have what you have and do with it what you can.

One thing you might consider is getting a Zoom video recorder to capture more consistent sound in open mic recordings. If you take a look at my channel, for reference, the videos labeled "031321" are from a show where the recording was on one of those, and I find the sound markedly better than a run of the mill cell phone recording. They're not terribly expensive at all and can be a great way to document your journey. That prompted me in that direction, but I just never made a move on it.

Right on man, thanks for the reply. I would definitely like to get some sort recording device to get some better quality stuff, I'll check out that Zoom recorder.

 

[Elmstreet]

I think they all have positives to them. Some good stuff.

The second one sounds best to me, but how much of that's due to the fat house sound?

Also, these are cell phone/camcorder mic videos? I don't know how much stock you can put in the comparisons if it's not the same song at the same venue with the same foh sound...at minimum.

Edit: Just to be clear in case it came across wrong, that's not say that I think it's pointless. I also use YouTube for my collection of videos so they're saved, and out of everything I have only a very few of the live videos are board recordings and only one is a multi-track mix. You have what you have and do with it what you can.

One thing you might consider is getting a Zoom video recorder to capture more consistent sound in open mic recordings. If you take a look at my channel, for reference, the videos labeled "031321" are from a show where the recording was on one of those, and I find the sound markedly better than a run of the mill cell phone recording. They're not terribly expensive at all and can be a great way to document your journey. That prompted me in that direction, but I just never made a move on it.

Does that Zoom recorder have it's own speaker or are you using a line from the mixer to get audio for the video?

 

[drpepper]

Does that Zoom recorder have it's own speaker or are you using a line from the mixer to get audio for the video?

Not 100% sure what you mean, but Zoom has audio recorders, but they also have SD card camcorders models. What's special about them is that the built-in mic is designed for recording live sound.

I think this is the model that was used for those videos.

 

[Elmstreet]

Not 100% sure what you mean, but Zoom has audio recorders, but they also have SD card camcorders models. What's special about them is that the built-in mic is designed for recording live sound.

I think this is the model that was used for those videos.

Ah ok sorry about that, you answered my question. Thanks!

 

[Deleted member 380707]

Can recommend the zoom and other companies handheld recorders. The lates generation of phones does a suprisingly good job too. Sometimes better than the 100-150$ recorders.

Carefull with recordings from the board. In most venues they will sound very bass-cut & mid-forward because FOH will HPF/cut bass according to room sound. They are great to judge your playing and signal quality, but do not accurately represent sound as the audience experiences it.

 

[Elmstreet]

Can recommend the zoom and other companies handheld recorders. The lates generation of phones does a suprisingly good job too. Sometimes better than the 100-150$ recorders.

Carefull with recordings from the board. In most venues they will sound very bass-cut & mid-forward because FOH will HPF/cut bass according to room sound. They are great to judge your playing and signal quality, but do not accurately represent sound as the audience experiences it.

Ah oh yeah that makes sense. I am pretty impressed with the phone recordings on these videos, they aren't half bad.

 

[pepj]

If I was watching the band, I'd prefer the mix of video 2.

 

[alex1fly]

I was just uploading a clip of our band playing this past weekend and I thought "man my tone sounds good here". After that I was curious what some of the older clips sounded like, so I went down memory lane and checked out some clips from a few months ago.

I switched over to bass from guitar about a year ago to play with this band, and ~6 months after that we played our first gig. For me this was my first gig I'd ever played, but the other guys had more experience.

At the time of the clip where we play Shine, I had little to no experience with live sound, eq, compressors, etc. My rig was simple, and I had looked up a video that said to cut through the mix turn up your mids so that's what I did and I left everything else flat. We hired a sound guy to help us with sound b/c we didn't even have a PA at this point, he said the bass sounded fine.

The next clip is a few months later at a nicer venue with an inhouse sound engineer. By this time I had a better understanding of live sound and I had gotten a better amp, different bass, and had a compressor/preamp.

The third clip is this past weekend playing a smaller bar where we ran our own sound. At this point I have the most experience of all the 3 clips, and I am running the same amp/compressor/preamp as the 2nd clip but EQ'd very different (I was going for that ampeg sound).

I definitely think I sound the best in the 3rd and most recent clip, and there has been about 5 months of researching, purchases, experience between the 1st and the 3rd video.

My question is, what do you guys think? Is it a noticeable improvement? I know this is very subjective, but I was curious what some other bass players thought.

The videos were all recorded on phones in different rooms/distances so this is by no means a great way to compare. I'm just going off of how the crappy phone audio recordings because that's all I have.

Clip 1 - Shine

Amp: Ampeg PF350 w/ a 410 and 115 cab. (Mids boosted, bass and treble flat)
Signal Chain: Bass > Tuner pedal > DI out of amp to PA
Bass: Parts PJ bass I built with SD Quarter pounder pickups.

Clip 2 - In the Meantime

Amp: Fender Rumble 500 (Low and high mids boosted, bass/treble flat)
Signal Chain: Bass > Tuner > MXR M87 > Sansamp VT Bass DI (set to mimic SVT) to front of amp
Bass: Spector NS Pulse 4 w/ active EMGs, onboard preamp flat

Clip 3 - Dead & Bloated

Amp: Fender Rumble 500 (Low mids cut, high mids boosted, bass flat, treble cut, contour and vintage button pressed)
Signal Chain: Bass > Tuner > MXR M87 > Sansamp VT Bass DI (set to mimic SVT) straight to PA, unaffected parallel signal out of pedal to amp.
Bass: Same parts bass with newer Dimarzio Relentless PJ pickups and different neck

Thanks for reading!

I listened without reading your descriptions of each tone. Here are my thoughts.
Clip 1 - a bit muddy and the high end is a bit clanky and harsh when you dig in. Sounds amateur.
Clip 2 - perfect. Balanced tone. Chewy mids. I hear everything you're playing and it all works well. When you support the band, you support the band. When you do fills up the neck, they're present and pleasant. No clank, no boom. This is the best sound, not only the sound itself but how it fits the mix. Sounds absolutely pro.
Clip 3 - some aspects of clip 1 and clip 2. It's a similar pleasant balance to clip 2 - no clank in the high end - but boomier and muddier in the low end like clip 1. Not AS boomy and muddy, but not anywhere near as clear as clip 2.

 

[Elmstreet]

I listened without reading your descriptions of each tone. Here are my thoughts.
Clip 1 - a bit muddy and the high end is a bit clanky and harsh when you dig in. Sounds amateur.
Clip 2 - perfect. Balanced tone. Chewy mids. I hear everything you're playing and it all works well. When you support the band, you support the band. When you do fills up the neck, they're present and pleasant. No clank, no boom. This is the best sound, not only the sound itself but how it fits the mix. Sounds absolutely pro.
Clip 3 - some aspects of clip 1 and clip 2. It's a similar pleasant balance to clip 2 - no clank in the high end - but boomier and muddier in the low end like clip 1. Not AS boomy and muddy, but not anywhere near as clear as clip 2.

Right on dude I appreciate it. Looks like that sound guy knows what he's doing! I'll look into cleaning up some of the mud in the future.

 

[Bassdirty]

I think they all have positives to them. Some good stuff.

The second one sounds best to me, but how much of that's due to the fat house sound?

Also, these are cell phone/camcorder mic videos? I don't know how much stock you can put in the comparisons if it's not the same song at the same venue with the same foh sound...at minimum.

Edit: Just to be clear in case it came across wrong, that's not say that I think it's pointless. I also use YouTube for my collection of videos so they're saved, and out of everything I have only a very few of the live videos are board recordings and only one is a multi-track mix. You have what you have and do with it what you can.

One thing you might consider is getting a Zoom video recorder to capture more consistent sound in open mic recordings. If you take a look at my channel, for reference, the videos labeled "031321" are from a show where the recording was on one of those, and I find the sound markedly better than a run of the mill cell phone recording. They're not terribly expensive at all and can be a great way to document your journey. That prompted me in that direction, but I just never made a move on it.

I agree with this guy mostly. ^^^


(AWESOME that you cover "in the meantime".. LOVE that song!)

Anyway, I also think #2 sounds best. It IS kinda hard to tell, as they all sound different in their own way, so, not just the bass, but everything. As mentioned, different venues etc. Is it same recording device? The 3rd clip sounded more "top end" or "treble-y". (again, could be different venue).

Overall, bass sounded low in vids 1/3. (A little better on 2), but this could be due to the recording device.

Also recommend the Zoom recorder. (great value- and great sound regardless of value).



T$

 

[Elmstreet]

I agree with this guy mostly. ^^^


(AWESOME that you cover "in the meantime".. LOVE that song!)

Anyway, I also think #2 sounds best. It IS kinda hard to tell, as they all sound different in their own way, so, not just the bass, but everything. As mentioned, different venues etc. Is it same recording device? The 3rd clip sounded more "top end" or "treble-y". (again, could be different venue).

Overall, bass sounded low in vids 1/3. (A little better on 2), but this could be due to the recording device.

Also recommend the Zoom recorder. (great value- and great sound regardless of value).



T$

Thanks dude! In The Meantime is one of my favorites to play for sure. In the 3rd clip I have the "bite" button clicked on my Sansamp VT Bass DI so I wonder if I just turn that off if that's enough to smooth everything out. It does add some top end for sure when that button is engaged.

 

[_Some Dude]

Mix 2. It's the one where the guitar and the bass fit together the best.

When I started on bass I tended to dial in like a guitarist... ie, I used too much midrange and tended to bury the guitars (mix 1).

In mix 2 I hear a lot of clarity in the guitar, which is what I go for when dialling in my bass. I want definition as I tend to be forward in the mix, but I don't want to mask/detract from the guitar. My ideal tone is when the guitar/bass sound like one massive guitar when in unison, but can be heard separately when they separate and do different things melodically. In this mix you can hear the guitar part and all the bass fills clearly.

Mix 3 the guitar sounds kinda thin and the guitar/bass aren't as unified in the mix, which is sucking the power out of the palm mutes. Could be because the camera is located near the bass cab and far from the guitar cab, but that's what I hear in this clip.

 

[Elmstreet]

Mix 2. It's the one where the guitar and the bass fit together the best.

When I started on bass I tended to dial in like a guitarist... ie, I used too much midrange and tended to bury the guitars (mix 1).

In mix 2 I hear a lot of clarity in the guitar, which is what I go for when dialling in my bass. I want definition as I tend to be forward in the mix, but I don't want to mask/detract from the guitar. My ideal tone is when the guitar/bass sound like one massive guitar when in unison, but can be heard separately when they separate and do different things melodically. In this mix you can hear the guitar part and all the bass fills clearly.

Mix 3 the guitar sounds kinda thin and the guitar/bass aren't as unified in the mix, which is sucking the power out of the palm mutes. Could be because the camera is located near the bass cab and far from the guitar cab, but that's what I hear in this clip.

You bring up a good point. I tend to listen back to these things and just listen to my bass tone but how it fits with the guitar is what really matters. I have a hard time getting a feel for how they work together since I'm on stage next to my amp and not next to his, so I'm always hearing myself more.

 

[Elmstreet]

I think they all have positives to them. Some good stuff.

The second one sounds best to me, but how much of that's due to the fat house sound?

Also, these are cell phone/camcorder mic videos? I don't know how much stock you can put in the comparisons if it's not the same song at the same venue with the same foh sound...at minimum.

Edit: Just to be clear in case it came across wrong, that's not say that I think it's pointless. I also use YouTube for my collection of videos so they're saved, and out of everything I have only a very few of the live videos are board recordings and only one is a multi-track mix. You have what you have and do with it what you can.

One thing you might consider is getting a Zoom video recorder to capture more consistent sound in open mic recordings. If you take a look at my channel, for reference, the videos labeled "031321" are from a show where the recording was on one of those, and I find the sound markedly better than a run of the mill cell phone recording. They're not terribly expensive at all and can be a great way to document your journey. That prompted me in that direction, but I just never made a move on it.

I checked out that video and yeah it's noticeably better, especially the low end. When it's all said and done I'm sure I will look back wishing I had more videos, and better quality videos.

 

[_Some Dude]

You bring up a good point. I tend to listen back to these things and just listen to my bass tone but how it fits with the guitar is what really matters. I have a hard time getting a feel for how they work together since I'm on stage next to my amp and not next to his, so I'm always hearing myself more.

In rehearsal, I'll dial in with the guitar and bass cab beside each other and facing towards me.

Over time, that's also lead to my guitarists dialling in a better tone.

 

[Elmstreet]

In rehearsal, I'll dial in with the guitar and bass cab beside each other and facing towards me.

Over time, that's also lead to my guitarists dialling in a better tone.

Solid idea, I'm trying this next practice.