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Is placement the issue?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by PrimusPanda, Jul 11, 2012.


  1. PrimusPanda

    PrimusPanda

    Nov 18, 2010
    Ohio
    This has been an issue for me for awhile, but I know it's not the stack itself. I have two 410 Hartke Hydrive cabs and the LH1000. The problem is that when in a band setting, whether it be practice or live, my bass seems very quiet and turning it up does nothing but when I ask people who are out in the audience or running sound they say my bass is easily heard and as one person put it, a "waterfall of beautiful tone." At one show I was even told to turn down although to me I was drowned out by everything else. I think the problem is probably the placement of the stack along with the placement of myself, but on most stages there isn't a lot of room to work with. So my question is 1. is the placement of the stack and myself the reason for me not being able to hear myself hardly at all and 2. is there anything I can do to fix this problem because hearing oneself is pretty important :help:
     
  2. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    1. Who knows? What is your placement, what bass(es), what amp settings, etc. Sometimes it's placement, sometimes it's EQ issues, sometimes it's something else.

    2. Vertical stacking helps tremendously if you're not doing it already. Learning how the Fender tone stack works is another good thing to do (google it for a thousand explanations better than I could do).
     
  3. Some would say placing the speakers 2-3 feet from the wall helps.
     
  4. PrimusPanda

    PrimusPanda

    Nov 18, 2010
    Ohio
    I typically have the stack either right against a wall or a decent distance from the wall. The stack is normally around 8ft or so from me, the basses I use are a Fender Jaguar and a Squier Precision but both sound quiet to me but still sound nice and loud according to others in the crowd. Bass is around 2 o'clock, mid varies from 2-4 o'clock, highs around 1-2 o'clock. I have fiddled with the EQ but that doesn't seem to do anything along the lines of being able to hear myself better.
     
  5. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    2-3 ft from the wall will result in boundary cancellations at various frequencies between 90 and 150 hz. That's the meat of where my sound comes from, and those are the last frequencies I'd want to have go out on me. So I prefer putting my amp either completely away from any boundaries as far as possible, or I put them as close to the wall as humanly possible so it cancels out a high frequency range that isn't so important to me.

    http://www.padrick.net/LiveSound/CancellationMode.htm
     
  6. Try using some earplugs to filter out some of the higher freq. The bass should be able to be more audible for you. Have someone record the band from the audiences position to see what they're hearing.
     
  7. There was a discussion (in another thread) about either lifting the cabs 1-2 ft off the ground or moving them away from the walls to improve bass response.
     
  8. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    +1

    Also look up the "Fender Tonestack", which your Hartke uses, or a variation thereof. Your setting results in a massive bass boost, which will eat up amp power, while making your speakers flap in the wind, trying to make way deep frequencies which is hard for them to do, and aren't easily heard in a band mix anyway. Doesn't mean go totally the other way to a middy/twangy tone, but "even it out" a bit more than you have it.

    Fat/thick tone is upperbass/lowermids, like Jimmy said, not deep, subwoofer bass.
     
  9. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    It's about 1/4 wavelength cancellations. 2.8 ft. = 1/4 wavelength @ 100hz. Can gut your tone in some situations and cure boom in others. Floor and ceiling are boundries as well as walls, use them to your benefit as best you can. The floor to ceiling thing is one you can't escape, so work around it, don't try to fight it, it will always win.
     
  10. Good stuff to know.
     
  11. MOTORHEADBANGER

    MOTORHEADBANGER Spud-boy looking for a real tomato

    Dec 23, 2008
    Sidney, Indiana
    You have your bass knob set way too high, and you are scooping the mids. If you boost your bass and scoop the mids, you will run out of headroom and loose yourself in the mix with drums and guitar. The audience may hear you, but you can't.

    The LH1000 is based on a Fender tone stack, meaning that the bass and treble controls are boost only and the midrange is cut only. That doesn't mean that it doesn't have any mids as the preamp has a very midrange filled tone, but if you turn the mid knob down you scoop the mids out and boost the sub-bass (the mud that eats up your volume/definition) even more. The huge amount of "bass" will also scoop/drown out the midrange. Try setting the bass knob lower, the mids all the way up, and the treble to taste.
     
  12. PrimusPanda

    PrimusPanda

    Nov 18, 2010
    Ohio
    Alright, will try to adjust the EQ a bit differently for that and see how it turns out next practice. I have run across the thread(s) about cab placement awhile back thinking it too might be the cause for this issue and have tried to place the stack accordingly but haven't had much luck. I had heard a few more bands playing (using an ampeg 410, not sure of the model) and the bass was booming, I know the Hartke probably won't match the lows but I figured maybe turning the bass up just enough to feel it a bit more might help my situation. I'll be cutting it back next time around and let you know how it goes. Thanks.
     
  13. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    If the bass was booming, it was likely the SVT 410hlf.
     

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