Psst... Ready to join TalkBass and start posting, make new friends, sell your gear, and more?  Register your free account in 30 seconds.

Is Simandl all there is???

Discussion in 'Jazz Technique [DB]' started by Blackbird, Nov 4, 2000.


  1. Blackbird

    Blackbird Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Mar 18, 2000
    California
    I have practiced with the Simandl book for a while, and it occurred to me: Is there a book out there that's similar to the Simandl book but more Jazz oriented? Thanks for any info.

    Will C.:cool:
     
  2. If You are Looking for more Pizz-Oriented, Jazz Bass line stuff, try Rufus Reid's "The Evolving Bassist" and "Evolving Upward".Also "The Improvisors' Bass Method"
    by Chuck Sher Publishing, but that book is a bit vague-
    ex.-"Now that you have the idea, make up your own lines.."
     
  3. The problem, IMO, with _Evolving Bassist_ and _Improviser's Bass Method_ is they don't really don't provide a fingering method. The point of Simandl and other traditional method books is to provide a system of fingering and shifting. There's a lot more to it than simply 1-2-4. Simandl helps solidify the positions and provides a fingering theory. The Reid and Sher books offer a lot of great jazz-oriented stuff, but it's worthless if you don't have the left hand technique to play it.

    I suggest using them both as supplemental materials. Use Simandl to get your left hand happening, apply what you learn in Simandl when using the other stuff to figure out how to play jazz. To help you through the monotony of Simandl work on making it sound musical. Swing through the exercises like you're playing a walking bassline.
     
  4. brianrost

    brianrost Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 26, 2000
    Boston, Taxachusetts
    While not jazz oriented, the other "classic" string bass method is the Eduoard Nanny set (two volumes). I studied out of those because that's what my teacher had used when he started.

    As others noted, all the jazz methods out there fall short in terms of working on fingerings.

    If you're bored with Simandl's method, try adding on his "30 Etudes" which are in order to increasing complexity. These give you much more melodic stuff to work on.
     
  5. Harabe Etudes will not teach you Jazz but will help with reading and fingering. Solve fingering problems and it will help you to read and play the more Jazz oriented books.
     
  6. I agree, the Hrabe 86 Etudes are good for getting your
    fingers going, I also like the Storch-Hrabe 57 Etudes because they are more melodic and less scale-oriented, and the Kreutzer transcriptions are good as well.
     
  7. cschenk78

    cschenk78

    Mar 12, 2000
    Watertown, NY
    There is also some interesting Stuff in the Sturm Volumes... For Jazz, Check out Ray Brown's Bass Book, It is wonderful :D
     
  8. I actually find Simandl to be very dry and unmusical in general. I start all my students on the Bille books (Ricordi 261 for beginners, 263 for players with a bit more playing experience). The Bille studies, like Simandl, cover all the keys and positions but are far more musical in nature. Many of the studies are very lyrical in nature and in many ways resemble Italian operatic writing like Verdi. So in addition to learning good basic position work, the student will be encouraged to develop a real sense of phrasing. It's never too early to start working on musical details and I really feel that Bille encourages more musical playing than Simandl tends to. Simandl seems more "mechanical" in nature.

    One word of warning about Bille: he employed the old Italian school method of using the third finger in place of the second. This fingering style isn't used very often anymore, so most players may find better results by changing all "3" fingerings as marked in Bille to 2nd finger.
     
  9. curtscheschuk

    curtscheschuk

    Dec 20, 1999


    regarding the simandl question.

    petracchi has some great left hand ideas, as well as rabbath. there is a rollez book, book 1 i think, that is made up of fun lower position exercises.
    some of the stuff in these books, if not all of it and that includes simandl, can be used to try to expand on the......
    ...."1-2-4 three notes in a position sort of thing now lets shift to the fifth position".....however, Try 1-2-4 spanning a fourth and covering everything in between and being a "position".

    Rob,

    i used bille when i was beginning and seem to remember enjoying it alot more than Franz. I do find that the third finger can be used in lower positions to play the interval of a Major third (c and e across the a and d strings) with less strain than using the 2nd finger for the lower note ( c in this example). just a thought.

    ake care,

    curt

    [Edited by curtscheschuk on 11-08-2000 at 09:56 AM]
     
  10. Would you expand on this, please? In the lower positions that's a huge amount of space. I can't imagine how you cover that region as you describe.
     
  11. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY
    fakeschenk,

    what is the name & publisher of Ray Brown's book? It sounds interesting. I have also heard recently that Rufus' "Evolving Upward" book is out of print, which would explain why I've been having trouble finding it. Does anyone know anything about this?
     

  12. Chris, Both Ray Brown's Bass Method published by Hal Leonard
    ($12.00) and Rufus' The Evolving Bassist($29.00) are Available from Lemur.
    http://www.lemurmusic.com
     
  13. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    I think I have just discovered this - I've been trying to work though "Evolving Bassist" and I keep finding myself thinking - how am I going to play this - what fingering?

    I am finding I don't have as much time as I need to keep in practice on both BG and DB - I only bought an EUB recently and I will have to "get serious" soon, but am struggling for practice time.

    I suppose I need to get my fingerings "right" - I do find that I can use fingerings from BG on my EUB - but maybe I shouldn't as there are some big stretches? I just am trying to put off going back to basics - well I have never learnt Simandl so it will be starting afresh!

    But I would like something more Jazz-oriented with fingerings!
     
  14. Phil Smith

    Phil Smith Mr Sumisu 2 U

    May 30, 2000
    Peoples Republic of Brooklyn
    Creator of: iGigBook for Android/iOS
    I'm thanking my lucky stars that I started out with a teacher using Simandl on the EBG and just had to make the adjustment to longer scale when I started studying the DB. The Simandl 30 etudes are more musical though targeted for arco playing. Another book that looks good, I've just picked it up to look through it as I write this message, is "Jazz Bass Compendium" by Sigi Busch.
     
  15. Jimmyjazz

    Jimmyjazz Guest

    Jul 19, 2002
    This book is good and can be used in tandem with Simandl as it uses the same positions/fingerings etc. It just came out a couple of years ago.

    Intonation Plus by Len Berryman

    A comprehensive method for the jazz double bass player - is this books subtitle. This book focuses on exercises, text, pictures to develop good technique for playing in tune, a most difficult objective on this instrument. Covers positions, right hand fingering technique, playing with a bow, major scale positions, vibrato, blues.
     
  16. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    Thanks to Phil and Jimmy - I will look into buying those. The Sigi Busch looks most promising.
     
  17. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY
    Sigi's book has some nice stuff in it, including a section on playing with three R.H. fingers in certain situations. I had a lesson with him last year, and he was a great guy as well as a good teacher. His concept of practicing "microtiming" has helped me a great deal.