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Is there an 18" available in 2021 similar to the Cerwin Vega in an Acoustic 301?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by nicksorenson, Feb 23, 2021 at 7:09 AM.


  1. nicksorenson

    nicksorenson

    Apr 2, 2008
    Missouri
    I searched and found this thread with no conclusion other than billfitzmaurilce saying the driver that came in my cab (Eminence Alpha Pro) is not a good choice.

    Replacement Speaker for an Acoustic 301 cab?

    I bought this cab based on hearing a rock band using one with an SVT in the late 90s. I remembered it sounding great and I loved the way it looked. I tend to like vintage speakers. Is there a vintage style similarly voiced equivalent today? The 18 in it has good specs, but he's saying it goes too low to work in this cab.
     
  2. nicksorenson

    nicksorenson

    Apr 2, 2008
    Missouri
  3. Bill Staudt

    Bill Staudt Supporting Member

    Jun 18, 2002
    nicksorenson likes this.
  4. nicksorenson

    nicksorenson

    Apr 2, 2008
    Missouri
    Thanks! Looks like they're not that expensive used
     
  5. Redbrangus

    Redbrangus Supporting Member

    Nov 19, 2018
    Under The X In Texas
    Now that you've modified your cab so it so longer functions as originally designed, it's pointless to worry about whether or not the original driver is in it. If I understand what's going on with your 301 cab now, it's a direct radiating cab in a very large, poorly-tuned reflex enclosure. Calculate what the internal volume is and see if you can get the Alpha Pro to line up with a tuning and port for that volume. I'm far from expert on this subject, but I suspect if you do try to use an original driver in your now-modified box, you'll find the power handling is significantly reduced unless you high-pass the signal at a pretty high point. In other words, by the time you have turned it up to the volume the cab was originally capable of, you will have burned up that original driver. Those drivers were no big deal -- that's why they are cheap in the used market. And probably why it had been replaced in your cab.
     
  6. nicksorenson

    nicksorenson

    Apr 2, 2008
    Missouri
    It'd take about 1 hour to glue and screw a block of MDF over the holes in the internal enclosure and return it to very close to stock form. I would like to hear it with the original CV speaker.

    I wouldn't even know where to look as to how to calculate with the mod. It's basically two sealed enclosure volumes each splitting the speakers output and spitting it back out two separate rectangular openings at the front just above and below the speaker (not technically slot ports... not sure what the correct definition would be).

    But all that aside, I'd like to hear it in it's stock form with the CV. I think the previous owner replaced it because he blew it too many times with his SVT head. Would have liked to have heard that! lol. The old saying... the best tone is right before the amp/speaker catches fire.
     
  7. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    No, it’s nothing like you describe. You are just guessing without understanding how the cabinet worked originally. It was originally designed with a healthy dose of science, going all the way back to Western Electric’s horn theory... which included both its benefits and weaknesses (which was also well understood).
     
  8. Them speakers have not been made for a long time and will not be.
    Do not go possibly destroying an original just to experiment. Let someone in the future that wants one to restore their beloved cab have it.
     
  9. I had one of those things for many years, it was a beast! sounded great though!
    I went through several of those speakers, burned them up once every couple years.

    If you can get the right driver and get it back to it's original form, you will be a happy player!

    Blow the pants right off ya!
     
  10. abarson

    abarson

    Nov 6, 2003
    Santa Cruz
    Too late for that.
    Can a folded horn cab (i.e. Acoustic 301) be used in REVERSE?
     
    legalbass likes this.
  11. It's a folded horn. It takes a lot of math that's well understood to create one. Wait.... I'm having deja vu....
     
  12. sonic 7

    sonic 7 Supporting Member

    Aug 10, 2011
    Queens, N.Y.C.
    I played a 301 for years. At on point I blew the original speaker and replaced it with an 18 inch Speaker made by Gauss. It sounded better than the original to me. Gauss is probably long out of business but im sure someone makes a speaker that would work.
     
    FranF likes this.
  13. Mine still has the “Lifetime Warranty” .... oh wait!
     
  14. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    Yes, the speaker division is long gone.
     
    sonic 7 likes this.
  15. A lot of folks have been looking for a replacement for the CV 18s for a long time.
    Definately check out the Unofficial Acoustic Forum.
    Someone there will have tried just about every choice there is with varying degrees of success.
     
    FranF likes this.
  16. chadds

    chadds

    Mar 18, 2000
    I used the CV B36MF with the 18” CV and a JBL K120. If the cabinet hadn’t been so worn out I’d still have. The circuit breaker on the crossover kept tripping. The wood was too thin. I used a Marshall plexi 100 then an SVT then an SM-400. The SWR through a Goliath Jr just was more robust sounded great. Sold all the other and bought much more SWR.

    I was very satisfied with my Acoustic 360/361 but it had no presence up close. That’s why I recommend an additional cab.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021 at 7:32 PM
    nicksorenson likes this.
  17. Eddie LeBlanc

    Eddie LeBlanc

    Oct 26, 2014
    Beaumont, Texas
    Don't create no problem, won't be no problem.
    I used a JBL E155 8 ohm in my old folded horn. It seemed to do great. Smoking sound, powerful, and has been sold for decades. Can't deal with all that weight any more or foot print on the stage.
    g?q=tbn:ANd9GcToz8frSHE_KtatUWbzDmr5KjJfiEqZiaYTkywE_vxuSRa7Z26kfABkyuGdzhGMacQQxRG391k&usqp=CAc.jpg
     
    FranF likes this.
  18. LetItGrowTone

    LetItGrowTone

    Apr 2, 2019
    Go to usspeaker.com, select 18" Woofers or "Guitar and Bass" on the left, then search for "horn" (as in "designed for horn loaded cabinets").
    See for example the FaitalPro 18FH510 (claims 30Hz to 2.5kHz). Here is one thread here about it (excellent supportive commentary but no mention of usage in a horn). Thiele and Small parameters here.

    note: The usspeaker.com webpage that leads to the product says "designed for horn loaded cabinets", but the specific product page does not repeat that claim. You'd have to check it. Also, they list that model in the NEO section, but it isn't.

    I'm a new owner of a FaitalPro 15PR400, and it's pretty great. That's all I know!
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021 at 7:56 PM
  19. And speaking of the best tone, I do agree with the OP that the best tone I ever got live, briefly, was from my musicman 130 head (tube power stage) into an incorrectly chosen speaker cab..... and the amp didn't survive the night!

    My head, NOT my cab.... I was rushing when I got there, didn't even think twice about looking at how the guys had set everything up, I just plugged in and wasn't thinking about checking anything like impedance or so forth. In the last song last song my bass tone was KILLER... overdriven yet forward.... of course that's the sound of the power tubes about to bite the dust..... and in the last few bars of the song my amp went BOOOM with flames and smoke.

    The engineer in me went... oh #?@#? what a moron, I didn't check x,y,z..... but the rock star (ish) in me went.... YEEEEEHAAA!

    damn, that was so much fun. EXPENSIVE fun. The russian power tubes and checkup of the head afterwards cost me far more than I made that night.

    But it was a blast, literally...
     
  20. 808State

    808State

    Dec 30, 2020
    Original speaker for the 301 would be a Cerwin Vega L-187

    It was a 18" speaker with 3 available voice coil impedance
    3 ohms 4 ohms or 8 ohms
    And was a 3" voicecoil

    Acoustic used the 3 ohm version.

    A original L-187 can be reconed for the correct original sound.

    A modern 18" speaker is more designed for subwoofer bandwidth
    usually around 30 to 1,200 kHz

    The Cerwin Vega was little unique since it had more highend
    40 to 3000 kHz
    Much more suited to fullrange bass guitar use.

    So it can be difficult to find a modern 3 ohm coil
    with a bandwidth of 40 to 3000 kHz

    A very good 18" speaker with good high end and 3" voice coil is
    from the Eminence Pro Series.
    The Eminence Sigma Pro 18-A2
    https://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=Sigma_Pro_18A_2
    The bandwidth is similar to the L-187
    41 to 2,500 kHz

    It is only available in a 8 ohm coil

    Keep in mind again for use in a normal vented enclosure
    18" speakers typical like upwards of 170 to 280 liters or 6 to 10 cubic feet.

    The sigma pro has a decent Qts or total quality factor to work in smaller volumes 3 to 7 cubic feet
    and a higher bandwidth to 2,500 kHz
    So it is well suited for bass guitar use.
    I recommend a volume of 113 to 140 liters or 4 to 5 cubic feet with vent tuning of 30 hz
     
    FranF, StereoPlayer and LetItGrowTone like this.
  21. Primary

    Primary TB Assistant

    Here are some related products that TB members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to TB’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to TB discussions about these products.

     
    Feb 28, 2021

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