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Is This A Typo? (Notation Question)

Discussion in 'General Instruction [BG]' started by stephanie, Nov 27, 2002.


  1. stephanie

    stephanie

    Nov 14, 2000
    Scranton, PA
    I'm looking over this exercise I got at my lesson yesterday. There's a few double sharp markings towards the end of the exercise. But then I come across a few notes that I was wondering if there's a typo on the page or if it's something else: The song is in the Key of B Major and I've come across, say, an A# marking A is already sharp in the key and the marking isn't a double sharp marking, so do you think this is a typo?

    While on the subject of this exercise...it's in 3/8 time. I've never played an a piece in this time so I'm a little new with it. I know that there's 3 beats in the measure and the 8th note gets the beat. At the end there are 2 measures that go: Dotted 8th connected to a 32d note and 4 connected 32nd notes. I am assuming the 4 32nd notes are the equivalent of 4 16th notes in this time. But I am lost on the dotted 8th and 32nd notes.

    Thanks,
    Stephanie
     
  2. Nick Gann

    Nick Gann Talkbass' Tubist in Residence

    Mar 24, 2002
    Silver Spring, MD
    A lot of times, the composer/writer will add in accidentals that are the same as the key signature to remind you of the key signature.

    If the # marking is in a measure where an A has already been given flat or natural accidental, then there needs to be a # accidental to change it back (unless you are in the next measure. When going into a different measure, all accidentals are canceled from the previous measure).

    Sometimes, it is just used as a reminder.
     
  3. moley

    moley

    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    Ok the A# thing. Usually, when an accidental that's in the key signiature anyway is put in, it's cancelling a previous accidental, or just a reminder. If, for example there's an A natural, or Ab (or any other kind of A) earlier in the bar, the # would be necessary to cancel it out, as by default accidentals last for the rest of the bar. Or, it could be that there was an A natural or Ab etc. in the previous bar, and it's just there to remind you that we're back to A# again (although strictly this is not necessary, because accidentals only affect the bar they're in).

    As for the 3/8 thing, that doesn't make sense. A dotted 8th note and 5 32nd notes doesn't add up to 3 beats. The dotted 8th note makes up a beat and a half, and last 4 32nd notes make up one beat, therefore you've got half a beat left to fill, and one 32nd note doesn't fill it. Are you sure there isn't a rest in there? Or maybe the second note of the bar is a 16th note? It would be more usual to have a dotted 8th note followed by a 16th note.
     
  4. eli

    eli Mad showoff 7-stringer and Wish lover Supporting Member

    Dec 12, 1999
    NW suburban Chicago
    If you're in B major, the only real reason ayone would mark an A# is if the last A played was an A natural. Strictly speaking, that's only supposed to be done if the A natural is IN THE SAME MEASURE as the new A#, but I've seen this kind of thing done even if the last A natural was in the previous bar -- kind of like a coutesy reminder, if you will.

    I am guessing there's a typo here. As you describe it, there are only 2-3/4 beats in that bar. More likely it should be dotted eigth/*sixteenth*, (totalling two beats), then the four 32nd notes for one more beat, totalling three beats in the measure. Check with your teacher -- for heaven's sake, don't spend the whole week trying to guess it out; that's why you're paying a teacher in the first place! The other possibility is that there should be a DOUBLE DOT on that eigth note, which would make the double-dotted eigth/32nd note group indeed equal two whole beats.

    That having been said, when a piece is written in 3/8 time, the composer usually intends you to "feel it in ONE", which means to have one big beat per bar without heavy emphasis on the 2nd and 3rd eigth notes. In print, it would sound more like BOOMpita BOOMpita (that was two whole bars) rather than BOOMP chick chick BOOMP chick chick. (this clumsy attempt at representing music reinforces what Frank Zappa said: "Writing about music is like dancing about architecture.") If you've ever played anything in 6/8, it's usually "felt in TWO", like a 2-beat with a bounce. This would mean that those 32nds are REALLY gonna be flying, though, so again make sure you check this out with your teacher. If the composer meant it to sound as three heavy beats (like BOOM chick chick), they more likely would have chosen 3/4.

    CAUTION: If your teacher composed this as an excercise, then just practice it as you're told and don't argue about it!

    Good luck and let me know how this works out.
     
  5. Phil Smith

    Phil Smith Mr Sumisu 2 U

    May 30, 2000
    Peoples Republic of Brooklyn
    Creator of: iGigBook for Android/iOS
    Can you post a photo of the music?
     
  6. stephanie

    stephanie

    Nov 14, 2000
    Scranton, PA
    Sorry I don't have a photo of the music (no scanner).

    Disregarding what the time signature is the measure looks like this (I'll type it note by note):

    Dotted 8th note
    32nd note
    32nd note

    32nd note
    32nd note
    32nd note
    32nd note

    Perhaps there is a typo in it? But the measure after it is exactly the same.

    Apologies if I'm not sounding clear or explaining it well enough. I've been sick all week :(.
    Thanks again,
    Stephanie
     
  7. thrash_jazz

    thrash_jazz

    Jan 11, 2002
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Artist: JAF Basses, Circle K Strings
    The way you have it written above does work out to 3/8. The dotted eighth note implies an eighth note PLUS a sixteenth note; two connected 32nds are equivalent to a 16th, as I'm sure you already knew.

    Therefore, you have two eighth notes in that secition, and the other four 32nds add up to another eighth note.

    Doesn't seem to be a typo. :)
     
  8. stephanie

    stephanie

    Nov 14, 2000
    Scranton, PA
    So I'm making an assumption that the measure would be counted something like this: 1+2+a 3e&a ?
     
  9. eli

    eli Mad showoff 7-stringer and Wish lover Supporting Member

    Dec 12, 1999
    NW suburban Chicago
    Why, yes, you've got it. In english, two bars like this would sound like DUMMMM diddle diddle diddle DUMMMM diddle diddle diddle.

    It all makes sense with SIX 32nd notes (as opposed to 5 in your first post).
     
  10. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY

    Must be a Chicago thing. Down here in Kentucky, we say, "LARRY darryl darryl darryl LARRY darryl darryl darryl."

    Colloquial dialect...Sheesh, what are ya gonna do?
     
  11. eli

    eli Mad showoff 7-stringer and Wish lover Supporting Member

    Dec 12, 1999
    NW suburban Chicago
    :D :D :D
     
  12. stephanie

    stephanie

    Nov 14, 2000
    Scranton, PA
    YAY! [​IMG] Haha finally :D

    Thanks :)