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Is this a worthwhile idea?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Polka dot, Aug 9, 2004.


  1. Polka dot

    Polka dot

    Aug 9, 2004
    Hello everyone, this is my first post on here after a long time of reading. You all seem to have a lot of experience so I thought I'd find something out...

    At the moment I play small gigs with a 125 Watt combo with a 12" speaker but find that at some of the bigger venues around town I can't hear myself very well without clipping. For that extra push in volume and perhaps a bit more punch would it be worth buying a speaker cab to plug into the extension speaker socket on the combo? Funds are short at the moment so I can't really upgrade to a completely new rig and the combo is fine for rehearsals so I'd like to keep it.

    Any responses are appreciated :)
     
  2. Eric Moesle

    Eric Moesle Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Columbus OH
    Assuming your combo can handle the decreased impedance load?

    If so, can't hurt, can only help, and you could always use the other cab with an upgraded rig later.
     
  3. Polka dot

    Polka dot

    Aug 9, 2004
    Well it says "minimum 8 ohms" over the socket so I assume that as long as it has 8 or more Ohms impedance thats ok right?? but would there be enough power to power the cab well enough?
     
  4. xyllion

    xyllion Commercial User

    Jan 14, 2003
    San Jose, CA, USA
    Owner, Looperlative Audio Products
    It is probably wise to check the owners manual first before plugging another cab in, but I suspect that your guess is correct.

    Is there enough power? Good question, the answer is maybe. You will need to do some shopping around. With that little power, you want to find an efficient extension cabinet. Likely this means that you will be sacrificing clarity or size or something else, but if you don't use an efficient cab, you won't get enough volume out of it to make it worth your money.
     
  5. Transverz

    Transverz believer of the Low End Theory

    May 3, 2004
    Los Angeles, CA
    If you are happy with your tone and type of sound, then yes, getting an extension cab that can cover most of all your gigs is a good idea.

    But as EM posted, will the results after adding another cab provide you with what you need? Make sure of that first by borrowing a properly matched impedance cab and seeing if that totally helps. It may or may not be enough for those larger venues. What kind of combo do you have? Specs?

    The only other thing I suggest is, especially if you feel you are just settling for the sound quality you have with your combo and are not really satisfied with it in the first place, sinking more money into it might not be best for the long run. I know you mentioned you are short on funds at the moment but you'd be surprised by what you can achieve with not much money! There are lots of cabs out there to fit almost any budget and lots of creative solutions for achieving the sound and power that the fine people here at TB can give you advice on. And still keep it rehearsal space friendly in terms of size! Plus buying used yields a lot of bang for not too much bucks! How much were you going to spend on a new cab? If you haven't been already, check out the classified section frequently and you may be able to find something there...

    just an idea...

    -T
    :D
     
  6. Dan Molina

    Dan Molina TalkBass Secular Progressive

    Jul 17, 2002
    Murr Town, California
    if it says "minimum of 8 ohms" I suggest you not go over 8 ohms.
     
  7. Eric Moesle

    Eric Moesle Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Columbus OH
    No No NO! If it says "minimum 8 ohms" you should not go UNDER 8 ohms.

    If you amp is 8 ohms only, and it has an 8 ohm speaker inside, you CANNOT add another cab. If, on the other hand, your external cab jack says "minimum 8 ohms", then you can add an 8 or 16 ohm cab to that jack, but that's it.
     
  8. Polka dot

    Polka dot

    Aug 9, 2004
    Thankyou all so much for your replies - much appreciated!

    But yeah the jack for an extension cab says minimum 8 ohms. I suppose I'll get looking at some cabs then, are there any particular brands I should look at? I need something with some bassy punch for hip hop and funk to give you an idea of my sound?
     
  9. Dan Molina

    Dan Molina TalkBass Secular Progressive

    Jul 17, 2002
    Murr Town, California
    that's what I meant sorry.
     
  10. Transverz

    Transverz believer of the Low End Theory

    May 3, 2004
    Los Angeles, CA
    Polka dot - which brand/model combo do you have? that would help greatly in us telling you what impedance you can put to it and what kind of power/volume to expect after adding a cab, etc.

    But going on the genre of music you mentioned, in general, it usually takes more watts to drive louder bassier sounds, especially through the bigger speakers (like your 15"). And punch gets derived from smaller speakers (10's likely) so you might wanna go that direction to compliment your 15? Like a good 2x10 would be in order, in my opinion. Lots of budget 2x10s out there too!

    But again, if you are going to simply hook up a cab to your combo, I personally wouldn't expect more lows to be emitted out of the 15" because of the possible reduction of power sharing between the cabs. But I guess that depends on the combo you have...

    -T
     
  11. Polka dot

    Polka dot

    Aug 9, 2004
    Well my combos a Laney RBW200- Its discontinued now but a similar model is still made. It has a 12" speaker by the way not a 15, I tried both 15s and 10s while buying, but preferred to compromise of a 12. Are 212 cabs even made?! I've never come across one...
     
  12. Transverz

    Transverz believer of the Low End Theory

    May 3, 2004
    Los Angeles, CA
    OOPS! You did say 12" in your initial post! Sorry, my mistake.

    Yeah, I like 12's too. They can get pretty low. And still be punchy. And YEAH! There are actually a bunch of 2x12s out there. Some are even pretty affordable! I'm sure lots of people will make their 2x12 suggestions.

    Okay, did the research on your Laney RBW200. The tiltback one, right? 125watts into your 12". Reading some good things about it! Anyway, here is my assumption about the amp:

    The external cabinet socket reads 8ohms minimum. Your amp, so it seems, is running at 125watts. I will have to assume they call this the RBW200 because at 4 ohms (your internal speaker most liklely at 8 ohms + an external 8 ohm cabinet) it will do 200watts. Eh? Can someone confirm that? The manual is less than informative on the wattage when attaching an external cab.

    So if I am right, 200 watts through a 12" and let's say another 1x12 should be able to give you a decent volume increase, not to mention some additional lows plus retain punch since you now are running 2x12s. For me, that would be the way to go. Adding anything more than another 12 or maybe even another 10 would start sucking up too much wattage per speaker. Maybe a 2x10 wouldn't hurt though if that sounds better for you. And one of the reviews on the RBW200 said that they added a 15" and they didn't get much of a volume increase though it rounded out the sound.

    :bag:

    -T
     
  13. TheChariot

    TheChariot

    Jul 6, 2004
    Boston, MA
    Aw yeah... most every speaker manufacturer I've seen makes a 2x12 cab. Even Ampeg.

    If money's an issue... you can go with an Avatar B212. Good value for the money, but from what I've heard about more inefficient brands, is that you need to give them a more generous supply of power.

    How much money are you actually talking about here for your current funding??? You might be a lot closer than you think to an extended rig. but you dont necessarily have to get it all at once. I'd recommend picking up an Avatar 2x12... and then down the road you can run it bridged into a power amp when you have the money for one.
     
  14. Polka dot

    Polka dot

    Aug 9, 2004
    No worries on the misreading Transverz!

    I was hoping for around £200 (no idea in $$$) roughly maybe a bit more at a push... I've heard good things about Avatar I'll check them out.

    I forgot to mention not only is cost an issue but so is space in my car and where I live. Whats the general opinion on Hartke by the way?
     
  15. Transverz

    Transverz believer of the Low End Theory

    May 3, 2004
    Los Angeles, CA
    I second that "eventual extended cab being run by separate poweramp from combo preamp"! Great plan.

    But to begin with, without a separate poweramp/head to drive the external cab, powering 3x12s from an assumed 200 watts is a bit on the underpowered side. Maybe 2x12, but 3x12 might be stretching it. Then again, that's from my theoretical assumption.

    And I'd say even 300watts or somewhere around there for your external 2x12 or even 1x12 would be pretty kick-@ss. Not very hard to find used, affordable poweramps in that range.

    -Transverz
     
  16. Bassic83

    Bassic83

    Jul 26, 2004
    Texas, USSA
    What I'd do is get an Avatar B212 with a Behringer 3000 head. I play this rig, and even with my picky ears, the sound and tone are very good for a low-buck rig with lots of flexibility. Get the 4-ohm cab, and you'll have a full 300 watts on tap. I play a large variety of rooms, even outdoor gigs, and I never have a problem being heard. Do you live in the UK? That may boost your price a little because of VAT and shipping, but I got my cab from Avatar for $361 shipped, and I got my Behringer for $200-ish, local store. I see them advertised for $229 all the time. If you decide on the 8-ohm cab, you can run 2 of them from the Behringer, if you need more volume for bigger clubs, or outdoor gigs. The downside is that at 8 ohms, the head puts out around 220 watts.
     
  17. Considering the wattage of your amp I would stick with a single 12 cab. That would make a nice 200w 2x12 setup.

    My personal reccomendation for a single 12 cab is an Avatar sb112.
     
  18. I think adding a 1x15 (8ohm) would be your best bet. I find that my SWR WM 12 is great on it's own, but if I need more volume then I add my Yorkville 1x15 which adds more volume and more low end which in turns lets me decrease the bass control which allows more headroom in the amplifier.

    If you live in the UK, perhaps you could check out some used Trace Elliot, Warwick or Ashdown cabs. I don't think Avatar ships outside the USA, but I could be wrong on that one.

    As far as space, we'll perhaps the 1x15 isn't the smallest cab. The only thing I could suggest is go out there and check stuff out to see what's on the used market in your area.