Here's one I'm working on, designed by a friend. It's a little bigger, 16x16x14.5" I'll be using an eminence bass lite 10".
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Double Bass Is your amp hugging the floor or suspended above?
- Thread starter BobDeRosa
- Start date
Well, I don't need to remind you to "measure twice, cut once".
Nice work!
Here's the finished cab. It really sounds good!
If the designers intended their cab to be elevated, they should make sure the consumers know!
If I look at the web site & see no mention of that anywhere, I'll assume I can do my usual floor thing w/ the HPF.
If you're still a little unsure, you can always check for yourself with a long cord, wireless or trusted buddy from out in the room.
If I look at the web site & see no mention of that anywhere, I'll assume I can do my usual floor thing w/ the HPF.
If you're still a little unsure, you can always check for yourself with a long cord, wireless or trusted buddy from out in the room.
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
My audience has told me it sounds clearer when tilted back
The result will vary from gig to gig. IMHO delivering a clear and focused bass sound to a live audience can be challenging. On rare occasion the bass is big and fat, but more often it's muddy and diffuse. Especially when there is excessive build up in the low mids, elevating the cab is a good strategy to increase clarity/focus and reduce muddiness.
My opinion is based on observations of various bass players who elevated their cabs who I thought sounded better than other bassists who played on the same stage. Perhaps the superior tone was do to some other factor...but my perception is elevating the cab was the most obvious difference.
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
My experience, generally, but it varies quite a bit from venue to venue.
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
I hear you. For several years, I always carried a Gramma Pad for joints with boomy, hollow, wooden stages. A variable high-pass filter is one of my favorite weapons in my never-ending quest for clear, articulate, sound.
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Bass cabinet designers and builders take a lot of things into account when they build a new box. Whether or not they test it with Double Bass is a
interesting question. Mike Arnopol definitely did that, so his cabinets work on the floor or elevated. Without P.A. support or unless you're in a very small venue, bass may be difficult to hear, depending on where you're sitting in the audience. I think of my amplifier as sound re-enforcement for myself and my band mates. Beyond that, the ensemble choices we make and the sensitivity of the musicians within them, probably does a great deal more to balance the volume of the instruments out in the audience. Just my take however.
P.S. Having one of Mike's cabinets does let you hear what your playing better and makes playing more comfortable as sound re-enforcement
interesting question. Mike Arnopol definitely did that, so his cabinets work on the floor or elevated. Without P.A. support or unless you're in a very small venue, bass may be difficult to hear, depending on where you're sitting in the audience. I think of my amplifier as sound re-enforcement for myself and my band mates. Beyond that, the ensemble choices we make and the sensitivity of the musicians within them, probably does a great deal more to balance the volume of the instruments out in the audience. Just my take however.
P.S. Having one of Mike's cabinets does let you hear what your playing better and makes playing more comfortable as sound re-enforcement
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Those are interesting looking cabs. I believe I'm going to make a couple more, maybe experiment with tuning for slightly less low end than on the one I just made. I can't believe how much bottom that single 10" is producing, at least in the few small rooms I've played it in. I also want to try some ultralight plywood that, unfortunately, I'll have to order and pay shipping on. But it's 40% lighter than Baltic birch and supposedly very similar in stiffness and strength.
This all started for me because I have 2 cabinets (had them for years) made by a one man company called flite sound. They are very light and sound pretty good, but they don't reproduce the fundamental on the E very well. (They were made for guitar) Anyhow, I'm hooked on the lightness and size, and I'm cheap. Plus I can't seem to resist a fun project.
A few people on this thread are talking about what the audience hears, and while that's important, if I can't hear what I'm doing on a gig, I'm miserable. For me priority one is being happy with the sound I'm hearing, and what my band mates are hearing.
This all started for me because I have 2 cabinets (had them for years) made by a one man company called flite sound. They are very light and sound pretty good, but they don't reproduce the fundamental on the E very well. (They were made for guitar) Anyhow, I'm hooked on the lightness and size, and I'm cheap. Plus I can't seem to resist a fun project.
A few people on this thread are talking about what the audience hears, and while that's important, if I can't hear what I'm doing on a gig, I'm miserable. For me priority one is being happy with the sound I'm hearing, and what my band mates are hearing.
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
My composite Crazy8 and Crazy88 were designed and built by Mike. Since I bought them, my other cabs haven't been used. And they are the first cabs I've ever used that achived the coveted MBOL with double bass. Great stuff!
I owned two Flite Sound 2x8 cabinets . For the time they were amazingly lightweight. Mine had liquid suspension magnet solution black aluminum drivers. Since then there have been some quantum leaps in speaker and speaker cabinet technology. Take a look at GR Bass AT 110 and 112 cabinets. Carbon Fiber Panels Very lightweight. Not cheap. Here's what they look like
My point is the audience will usually hear something different than you hear on stage. A lot players assume they can control what the audience hears by dialing in the perfect sound on stage. But it doesn't typically work that way.
My philosophy as a full-time pro was I needed to hear well enough to play, but the audience's experience should be favored as much as possible. So a compromise is required where neither I nor the audience typically gets perfection.
The reality is it can be difficult to impossible to coax the bass to sound good in a live environment. Often you simply do the best you can. I find that elevating the cab and tilting it to aim at my head tends to give me more of what I want on stage at a lower volume, so the PA can do a better job delivering bass to the audience. I also find that if the bass amp carries the room, that elevating the cab often reduces rumble and enhances clarity and focus for the audience.
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I've tried various tricks of the trade, the extra long cord to go out into the house. If you set the amp out in the room it sounds weird on stage. Rasing the speaker up on a stand. That lowers the bass response on a traditional cab to much. Up on a chair can only work as a fall back, but it depends on the height, stability, and surface area of the chairs sear. To many variables for to little reward IME I like the floor.
P.S. I had the original Gallien Krueger 200MB with its black metal microphone stand (tilt) stand mount. It gave you clarity but the trade off was loss of
Bass response. The best cabinet rises I've found is the Auralex Gramma. It isolates the cabinet from the floor without sacrificing low end.
P.S. I had the original Gallien Krueger 200MB with its black metal microphone stand (tilt) stand mount. It gave you clarity but the trade off was loss of
Bass response. The best cabinet rises I've found is the Auralex Gramma. It isolates the cabinet from the floor without sacrificing low end.
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I've tried various tricks of the trade, the extra long cord to go out into the house. If you set the amp out in the room it sounds weird on stage. Rasing the speaker up on a stand. That lowers the bass response on a traditional cab to much. Up on a chair can only work as a fall back. K
I'll be the first to admit that I am not a tone specialist when it comes to amp'ing. I highly respect those who are. @Wasnex and @Ric Vice, I've probably learned more about sound systems and even about tone from you and a few other folks here in TB/DB than I would have ever learned in just my bluegrass/roots circles in 100 years.
In my normal musical world the only reason I would be using an amp at all is to be heard in the mix, and if I'm that desperate, just getting through to the audience is the most important thing. And with my relatively small combo (standard bass) amp, elevating it is the best way I can do that. But I wouldn't pretend that it produces the best possible tone, ever...
I have needed to use my elevated amp occasionally in non-bluegrass/roots circles where there were electric instruments and/or keys horns and drums, but in that kind of circumstance I've also used my piezo system specifically for its electronic tone, which in higher volume does cut through with more resistance to feedback. This gets me by, but without much worry about tone.
And when there wasn't a full FOH available with my bluegrass/Gospel band, in sensitive volume situations, I've also used my elevated combo amp and my mounted mic for outdoor gigs, and it's worked out well, sounding better than the piezo system. But these were again situations where the double bass just being heard from a distance was more important than amp tone.
Personally, from my bluegrass stage experience, I'd much rather just plug into an FOH, and not have to worry about amps or even tone, at all.
In my normal musical world the only reason I would be using an amp at all is to be heard in the mix, and if I'm that desperate, just getting through to the audience is the most important thing. And with my relatively small combo (standard bass) amp, elevating it is the best way I can do that. But I wouldn't pretend that it produces the best possible tone, ever...
I have needed to use my elevated amp occasionally in non-bluegrass/roots circles where there were electric instruments and/or keys horns and drums, but in that kind of circumstance I've also used my piezo system specifically for its electronic tone, which in higher volume does cut through with more resistance to feedback. This gets me by, but without much worry about tone.
And when there wasn't a full FOH available with my bluegrass/Gospel band, in sensitive volume situations, I've also used my elevated combo amp and my mounted mic for outdoor gigs, and it's worked out well, sounding better than the piezo system. But these were again situations where the double bass just being heard from a distance was more important than amp tone.
Personally, from my bluegrass stage experience, I'd much rather just plug into an FOH, and not have to worry about amps or even tone, at all.
I used to ALWAYS have my amp on the floor, but once I got used to not having that thickness in the low end I try to always raise it. One of my favorites is the little step stool sold by Harbor Freight. It's small and folds completely flat, but best for a 10 or 12" speaker. Holds 300 lbs, though. I think it's 7 bucks.
Everything is room/stage dependent. Low cut filters are one of the easiest ways solve most of the issues we deal with. Like you
I put my bass near the floor. Usually, tilted with my Ampwedge or sitting on a Baby Gramma.
I put my bass near the floor. Usually, tilted with my Ampwedge or sitting on a Baby Gramma.
