we are a democracy for the most part. but our drummer has thrown his sticks at one of our guitarists who he felt wasn't practicing enough.
I laughed.
I laughed.
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Is your band a democracy? or the opposite?
- Thread starter JaneBass1
- Start date
I think one of the better parts of TalkBass is learning about how other folks do things. It helps to keep a fresh perspective. This extends from playing to technique to band management.
Lesson learned: When you go to audition for a band, it is a two way affair. The band is also in the spotlight. Ask questions, how is the band run? How is money handled? Is the project a Democracy or is the band one guys baby?
There too many things to be unhappy doing, so why be unhappy making music?
Lesson learned: When you go to audition for a band, it is a two way affair. The band is also in the spotlight. Ask questions, how is the band run? How is money handled? Is the project a Democracy or is the band one guys baby?
There too many things to be unhappy doing, so why be unhappy making music?
one thing i like about my current band is that we each have a role. we have a primary songwriter and we do all originals, so we do only his songs at this point. however, he really only writes words and melodies, and knows that he is no great shakes with any other instrument so he lets us take the lead on producing and arranging. i am sort of the musical director in practice and in the studio. another guy handles all the booking. it plays to all our strengths.
i think it helps to have someone you trust handling different aspects of the work. if i had to spend a lot of time dealing with booking agents and dicking around on our myspace page i'd shoot myself. but i can do counterpoint and write harmonies all day. it's about knowing your strengths and playing to them.
i think it helps to have someone you trust handling different aspects of the work. if i had to spend a lot of time dealing with booking agents and dicking around on our myspace page i'd shoot myself. but i can do counterpoint and write harmonies all day. it's about knowing your strengths and playing to them.
My band works kinda like a democracy. I write the songs and since i have to sing the songs i need the music to work in my favor. And since im the only surviving member for the last 2 years of changes im like a veteran so what i say goes but im not an douche about it. I present an idea and a rhythym normally i take the guitar and show the the guitarist what i want to hear and then go on the drums and show the drummer what i want to hear.
Eventually from my seed we birth a full fledged good song. Their creativity comes in after i show them what it should sound like or be like, then they use thier techniques to shape a good song.
make sense?
If something sounds bad or generic then i say throw it out the window. Who wants to hear some copycat crap? if it's been done before then we leave it alone. I veto bad ideas and keep good ones. If the other 2 find that somethings a great idea then we'll try it and sometimes im forced to like it.
Eventually from my seed we birth a full fledged good song. Their creativity comes in after i show them what it should sound like or be like, then they use thier techniques to shape a good song.
make sense?
If something sounds bad or generic then i say throw it out the window. Who wants to hear some copycat crap? if it's been done before then we leave it alone. I veto bad ideas and keep good ones. If the other 2 find that somethings a great idea then we'll try it and sometimes im forced to like it.
Both of my bands are quite democratic. Everyone gets their say and we make compromises where it works for everyone. We have a lot of sessions where we argue like heck but we all don't take it personally and get the job done in the end.
Most run-ins are between me and one of my singers as he's the sort of bloke that has little background in music arrangement and always wants the band to just fit around his lyrics. Can't work that way all the time so I have to pull him into line now and then. The rest a pretty cool.
Most run-ins are between me and one of my singers as he's the sort of bloke that has little background in music arrangement and always wants the band to just fit around his lyrics. Can't work that way all the time so I have to pull him into line now and then. The rest a pretty cool.
I've been in several bands that SAID up front that it was a democracy, but in practice, (usually the LS) acted like a petty dictator.
I hate that. If I don't have a full say in band matters, I walk.
I hate that. If I don't have a full say in band matters, I walk.
Wise words. You may come across as....whatever someone feels like labelling you. More importantly, that will still help the band by having something in place - unlike bands I've been in where "voting" was only invoked by certain people where it benefitted them, and the threat to quit was invoked when they knew they wouldn't win a vote had one actually taken place.
The bands I'm "in" are a democracy in that everything is at least discussed, and if ANY member is REALLY against any particular song/business decision/policy it gets kicked out. All the guys are fairly mature individuals so everything's very civilised.
In my work as a gig whore, I'm a paid sub-contractor so it's not a democracy and what the leader says goes, within reason. If I really don't agree with a decision and/or don't like a situation, and it can't be resolved, I walk.
In my work as a gig whore, I'm a paid sub-contractor so it's not a democracy and what the leader says goes, within reason. If I really don't agree with a decision and/or don't like a situation, and it can't be resolved, I walk.
IME democracy only works up to a point. There must be a leader, he must be able to make a quick decision when necessary, and the rest of the band must be OK with that.
Discussion and compromise are also needed, but not on every single issue or situation.
The best setup is benevolent dictatorship. A bit of everyone getting their say, and sometimes getting their way, and a bit of leader taking charge. It's a fine line, and hard to keep going. My country band is close to this, and that's why I've been with them for 8 years. I quit the most successful band I was ever in, after 2 1/2 years, because it was too much dictator and not enough compromise for my taste.
My originals band is much more of a democracy, and there is less forward motion as a result.
Discussion and compromise are also needed, but not on every single issue or situation.
The best setup is benevolent dictatorship. A bit of everyone getting their say, and sometimes getting their way, and a bit of leader taking charge. It's a fine line, and hard to keep going. My country band is close to this, and that's why I've been with them for 8 years. I quit the most successful band I was ever in, after 2 1/2 years, because it was too much dictator and not enough compromise for my taste.
My originals band is much more of a democracy, and there is less forward motion as a result.
Both of the bands i've been in were a democracy until it came time for money then only me and one other guy always had our share but nobody else did.
In my last band though what we did was we gave each person in the band a job or two; you handle the merch, i'll book the shows, you do this, you do that...etc. It went fine for about a week then they became lazy and it became me and another guy doing all the work. Finally, I walked. I have a post in here some where talking about what happend with my band if you want to read it.
In my last band though what we did was we gave each person in the band a job or two; you handle the merch, i'll book the shows, you do this, you do that...etc. It went fine for about a week then they became lazy and it became me and another guy doing all the work. Finally, I walked. I have a post in here some where talking about what happend with my band if you want to read it.
+1
I was in a band where the singer did EVERYTHING: booked the gigs, mailing list, wrote most songs, negotiated w/ bar owners, was the frontman etc. I didn't have time to do any of this stuff, so I kept my mouth shut and played. It was nice for once to just show up and play.
I think voting rights have something to do with home much effort people are putting in to make the whole thing work. Opinions always should count to some degree, but I don't expect the "show up and play" musicians to be on equal footing with those who are bringing together the band members, the songs and places to play. Anyway, that's just my experience.
Opposite of democracy and that's ok. Our singer wrote all the songs and she has final say in the kind of show she wants to put on, where she's going musically, etc. We're her back-up band and we all know it. We all play for fun, so it's no big deal sitting back and letting somebody else do the work.
I feel like a mercenary player, more than a band member of two of the three bands I work with. The two bands are run by a strong leader(s) who are not the most talented player(s). They call the shots and I show up, ready to set up wherever they want, and play whatever they want.
I like playing so I try not to focus on the pettiness of egos of those 'in charge'. I try to find the essence of what the band/tune/groove is about and exploit it for all that it is worth.
The jazz group leader, the sax player, is especially thick. One song reminds him of another and he calls them back to back - same key and essentially the same rhythm.
(Song for my Father and Tom Thumb for instance).
The cover band is dominated by a father/son on percussion who keep the band limited to their audiences' tastes in one of the worst feedback loops I've ever been stuck with.
The third band is two groups who play together: a small but powerful rhythm section with an awesome drummer and a great KB player; and the three singers who generally don't mix with the band offstage, and on stage are definitely in charge.
So one totalitarian, one dynasty and one communal association for me.
I like playing so I try not to focus on the pettiness of egos of those 'in charge'. I try to find the essence of what the band/tune/groove is about and exploit it for all that it is worth.
The jazz group leader, the sax player, is especially thick. One song reminds him of another and he calls them back to back - same key and essentially the same rhythm.
(Song for my Father and Tom Thumb for instance).
The cover band is dominated by a father/son on percussion who keep the band limited to their audiences' tastes in one of the worst feedback loops I've ever been stuck with.
The third band is two groups who play together: a small but powerful rhythm section with an awesome drummer and a great KB player; and the three singers who generally don't mix with the band offstage, and on stage are definitely in charge.
So one totalitarian, one dynasty and one communal association for me.
one band is mostly a democracy, with the frontman being somewhat leaderish, but not dictatorial in any way. We all have input, and no major decisions are made without everyone having a say.
But I'm also in a singer/songwriter's band, and she's the band leader, no question. I'm hired by her to play her songs and back her up. She'll take the band members' input and advice, but she still has the final say.
But I'm also in a singer/songwriter's band, and she's the band leader, no question. I'm hired by her to play her songs and back her up. She'll take the band members' input and advice, but she still has the final say.
The band (trio, blues covers) that I WAS in, until quite recently, operated on consensus while mainly following the leader (guitar/voc guy; he and I co-founded the trio). Worked fine, no friction, no worries, weekly practice, monthly gigs. Then, without discussion or warning, leader cancels practice and gig (4 hours notice) and quits, effectively shutting down the band all by himself. "Personal reasons". So it goes...
The band I am in is always open to new ideas, so we try out alot of different techniques and songs. We record everything and then listen to it throughout the weeks and make comments on it next practice. Always a democracy
Like a previous guy mentioned, I never joined a band, always created them.
Most of my bands have ben very democratic. There is no point to be in a band if people are not happy. As the seasoned vet among a lot of younger players, or players who do not have a lot of experience with band politics, they look to me as the wise guy.
We are kind of a Monarchy, where I am the king, and my bandmates are parliment. I listen to them, and let them know the experience I have had doing those things they suggest, etc. When it comes to a decision after we have discussed everything, I pretty much make my case for why we should do something, and I want everyone to agree with it. If they do, that is what gets done. If not, we think about it more and bring it back to the table next practice. We each have taken roles. One guitarist writes most of the music, the singer does most of the booking and myspace up keep, the drummer provides our practice space and is looking for a band van, our other guitarist shows up? lol He is still in highschool so his responsibilities are limited. He was complaining about not being very active in the song writing. I asked him to bring a song to practice or go help the other guitarist. He hasn't done either yet.
I am basically the big decision maker, and music arranger. (What is with bass players being the ones that have to pave the cement?
The vocalist and I are the oldest members, we are usually the spokes people. Everyone in the band is satisfied with how things are run so far. It is really a matter of establishing good communication and trusting the more experienced players. If you do not have say, or you cannot trust the group, better to leave.
Most of my bands have ben very democratic. There is no point to be in a band if people are not happy. As the seasoned vet among a lot of younger players, or players who do not have a lot of experience with band politics, they look to me as the wise guy.
We are kind of a Monarchy, where I am the king, and my bandmates are parliment. I listen to them, and let them know the experience I have had doing those things they suggest, etc. When it comes to a decision after we have discussed everything, I pretty much make my case for why we should do something, and I want everyone to agree with it. If they do, that is what gets done. If not, we think about it more and bring it back to the table next practice. We each have taken roles. One guitarist writes most of the music, the singer does most of the booking and myspace up keep, the drummer provides our practice space and is looking for a band van, our other guitarist shows up? lol He is still in highschool so his responsibilities are limited. He was complaining about not being very active in the song writing. I asked him to bring a song to practice or go help the other guitarist. He hasn't done either yet.
I am basically the big decision maker, and music arranger. (What is with bass players being the ones that have to pave the cement?
The vocalist and I are the oldest members, we are usually the spokes people. Everyone in the band is satisfied with how things are run so far. It is really a matter of establishing good communication and trusting the more experienced players. If you do not have say, or you cannot trust the group, better to leave.
One of my mentors once told me that sometimes you cannot change the way people are and that also sometimes you have to play music you don't like.
When I played in a cover band, someone in the crowd asked for a song we all dreaded to play. Like really hated the song. But what could we say. Besides sometimes drunk people can get very aggressive.
Going back to the subject, our singer wrote most of the songs, but when I joined I had songs of myself. I am trying to bring them but I had found some resistance. I think the drummer has brought some ideas and he was shot down also. I think the singer has to be open minded. If I am playing 10 of his songs, why dont we play at least 2 of mine.
I like some, others are ok. But I still play them, and try to make the best out of them. Although at some point I am going to have to make a choice and see if I really want to stay in a band where I cannot play my music.
When I played in a cover band, someone in the crowd asked for a song we all dreaded to play. Like really hated the song. But what could we say. Besides sometimes drunk people can get very aggressive.
Going back to the subject, our singer wrote most of the songs, but when I joined I had songs of myself. I am trying to bring them but I had found some resistance. I think the drummer has brought some ideas and he was shot down also. I think the singer has to be open minded. If I am playing 10 of his songs, why dont we play at least 2 of mine.
I like some, others are ok. But I still play them, and try to make the best out of them. Although at some point I am going to have to make a choice and see if I really want to stay in a band where I cannot play my music.
