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Ischell X48 vs AKG C411

Discussion in 'Amps, Mics & Pickups [DB]' started by Russell Bergum, Dec 25, 2016.


  1. Russell Bergum

    Russell Bergum Supporting Member

    Dec 10, 2006
    Rochester, MN
    Has anyone compared the Ischell X48 with the AKG C411?

    I am looking for a mic/pickup to use in live situations. I have the Ehrlund EAP on one bass, which I like, and need to amplify my other bass. Given the skinny cord on the EAP, I don't like to take it off. I've read through threads on each of these mic's, and they both look good. The EAP now costs twice as much as I paid, and would like something a little less expensive.
     
    Ric Vice likes this.
  2. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    That was the unfortunate result of Ehrulnd alining with a different distributor. Regretably, it's likely contributed to less interest from players who originally might have purchased one.
    IME the lead on the newer version of the EAP is better isolated from vibrations. The Ischell has worked well for many players here on talkbass. The Ehrlund works so well on my bass, that I'm not likely to switch anytime soon.

    Ric
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2016
  3. rickwolff

    rickwolff CGJ -- Endorsing Artist-- ---3M Dual Lock--- Supporting Member

    I have both the Ischell and the AKG C411. I keep the Ischell on my carved bass where I blend it with my Lifeline, and on my plywood bass I blend the AKG and a Krivo mag.

    I like both mics, for a more MBOL, especially on a really good sounding bass I'd have to go with the Ischell. For 'live' situations, sometimes MBOL is not even what you're after. For the price, the AKG C411 is hard to beat. Keep in mind that you will need phantom power for the AKG. The Ischell X-Jac can either through an XLR (using external phantom power) or use its attached 9v battery and run through a 1/4 inch cable without needing external phantom (You can also run both at once).

    I haven't noticed a big difference between the 1/4 inch or the XLR for sound - I have been using the 1/4 inch, and I'm still on the original 9v battery.

    If I get a chance I may do a quick 2 channel recording comparing the 2 mics. In that case I would probably run the Ischell direct into the Zoom recorder and run the AKG through my Headway Pre to give me tone control - which the AKG needs more than the Ischell.
     
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  4. rickwolff

    rickwolff CGJ -- Endorsing Artist-- ---3M Dual Lock--- Supporting Member

    I might add that the Ischell is 95% Feedback free until you get stupid loud. The AKG is 99% feedback free even if you get stupid loud (until the body of the bass, itself, starts to feed back).
     
    vin*tone, Russell Bergum and Ric Vice like this.
  5. Russell Bergum

    Russell Bergum Supporting Member

    Dec 10, 2006
    Rochester, MN
    I would be using it on a carved Seth Kimmel bass, running either into my AI Coda-R Series III or my Headway DB-2 pre.
     
  6. rickwolff

    rickwolff CGJ -- Endorsing Artist-- ---3M Dual Lock--- Supporting Member

    OK Gang, time for the guessing game again. These are (not in any particular order) The AKG C411 Contact Mic, The ATM 350 clip on condenser, The Ischell XJac, and the Zoom 6 Internal Mic.

    Good luck!

    ANSWERS BELOW IN POST #8.

     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2016
    Monte, vin*tone and Russell Bergum like this.
  7. rickwolff

    rickwolff CGJ -- Endorsing Artist-- ---3M Dual Lock--- Supporting Member

    OK, being that this is Christmas Day, maybe I need to fess up that Santa Clause completely skipped me (Bah Humbug).

    But I do have a new micro bass head coming in January and 'thinking' about getting another speaker to go with it - but that might be a bridge too far.

    Hope Y'all are having a good day. Don't drink too much eggnog.
     
  8. rickwolff

    rickwolff CGJ -- Endorsing Artist-- ---3M Dual Lock--- Supporting Member

    And, being Christmas, I decided to give you the answers.

    The first recording labeled LR is a mono version of the internal zoom condenser mic (which I always find sound Really good)

    The second recording (labeled TR1) is the Ischell straight to the Zoom

    The third recording (labeled TR2) is the AKG C411 thru the EDB-2 to get rid of some of the 'brightness'. I probably should have added more bass and low mid to get it closer to the other mics.

    The fourth recoring (labeled TR3) is the ATM 350 direct to the Zoom.

    To my ear they are all very useable, but bleed and feedback eliminates the ATM 350 for all but the quitest gigs (or maybe FOH).

    The Ischell sounds better (to me) than the AKG, but the AKG is pretty much foolproof, and can give you some wicked 'highs' if that is something you need.
     
    vin*tone likes this.
  9. Rick, it's not completely clear if the position or the type of contact mic influences the sound more than the other. It would be interesting if you can do two short recordings, one like it you already made and a second with exchanged positions of both pickups.

    Ideally make both recordings new (after Christmas), so you can be sure the recording conditions of both recordings are the same. I think a short scale up and down over about two octaves might be enough to compare.
     
  10. Russell Bergum

    Russell Bergum Supporting Member

    Dec 10, 2006
    Rochester, MN
    Thanks for the clips!
     
  11. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    Which sounds really nice,

    Great sound, very focused, little or no etraneous noise coming from the Ischell, very even in timbre, tone and volume across all registers. This mic sounds incredible.

    Agreed, IMHO the AKG differs a bit from the Ischell, in that it's older technology whereas the Ischell has the advantage of the benifits from newer technology.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2016
    rickwolff likes this.
  12. rickwolff

    rickwolff CGJ -- Endorsing Artist-- ---3M Dual Lock--- Supporting Member

    Here's another recording. Again, the Ischell XJac alternating with the AKG C411, I announce which is which as they're recorded. They both go the the Headway EDB-2 but ONLY the AKG is getting any EQ, I have dropped almost all of the highs and high mids.

    With these EQ adjustments (and throught MAS 26) I think they sound more similar than differenct. Thoughts?
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 26, 2016
  13. rickwolff

    rickwolff CGJ -- Endorsing Artist-- ---3M Dual Lock--- Supporting Member

    Hi Double,

    I haven't tried changing the position yet, but I did another recording and EQ'd the AKG to what I think is much closer to the sound of the Ischell. Let me know what you think (I also played 2 octave scales).
     
  14. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    Rick,
    Nice job of doing recorded examples
    that are constient between takes! Using an amp as the sound source is also great, because it gives a better sonic footprint for comparing different pickups/mikes. IMHO even with the EQ adjustments the AKG 411 starts to "thin out" the minute you hit the middle register. There's really no comparison IMHO. The Ischell wins, hands down. Just my take.

    Ric
     
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  15. rickwolff

    rickwolff CGJ -- Endorsing Artist-- ---3M Dual Lock--- Supporting Member

    Thanks Ric,

    I always appreciate a critique from a really good pair of ears!
     
  16. Russell Bergum

    Russell Bergum Supporting Member

    Dec 10, 2006
    Rochester, MN
    Boy, they both sound great! Awesome playing!
    I was wondering how they compare with arco??
     
  17. rickwolff

    rickwolff CGJ -- Endorsing Artist-- ---3M Dual Lock--- Supporting Member

    Hi Russell,

    I'll crawl back in the woodshed tomorrow and do a little arco sample.

    Peace
     
  18. Russell Bergum

    Russell Bergum Supporting Member

    Dec 10, 2006
    Rochester, MN
    I agree. Just listened with headphones and the Ischell is fuller across the full register. The AKG has more of a guitar timbre, with more finger sound - almost sounds like you switched strings.

    For the price, both sound Really good. I couldn't imagine ever using a piezo (other than the Ehrlund) again.
     
    Ric Vice likes this.
  19. slinkyphil

    slinkyphil

    Jan 11, 2009
    AKG sounds better for me! And you say it is much more feedback resistant... It's almost a no brainer! Also, I think I need to get myself one of those MAS cabs. Damm... Wizardry?
     
  20. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    Interesting, I'm just curious as to what qualities of the AKG 411 you prefer over the Ischell? All things being equal EQ wise, what draws you to the timbre of 411? To my ears, it's missing the core sound of Rick's bass. Of course, playing through the AKG 411 live may sound quite different. For me at least, yhe AKG dosen't sound substantially different from a piezo pickup. Just my take however. ;>)

    Ric
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2016

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