Jazz Solo Folks, do extended range Basses make that much of a difference?

[LSM07]

Are you saying "playing solo" i.e. unaccompanied, or "soloing" i.e., playing melodic lines?
For the former, because of the low range of the bass instrument, root-third-seventh for comping will get you across the road and back, so an extra string may not be necessary; extended voicings may obviate the need for a higher string, as a ninth will sound like mud voiced next to the rood (for obvious reasons). For the latter, better ideas and better ears will give you better solos, not a bigger instrument, although extra strings can be handy for extended arpeggios or whatever you may hear.
So, go with more strings if it lends itself to what you're actually trying to accomplish as opposed to what you *feel* you're trying to accomplish. That just means try using 4 first and see how far you can get with what you have.

 

[groooooove]

i very much like having more range. but it's super personal. if you are physically more comfortable on a 4, that's great.

 

[matthewbrown]

I find that the Ibby Volo I own is great for solos, and especially for melodies on ballads. I think the extended range is useful, but it takes awhile to get comfortable in the upper registers. Certainly helps with chords, but how many people want to hear the bassist play chords? Not many, I find. It's also hand for sight-reading, as you can eliminate lots of shifting that can be a distraction.

 

[Ritter667]

Are you saying "playing solo" i.e. unaccompanied, or "soloing" i.e., playing melodic lines?
For the former, because of the low range of the bass instrument, root-third-seventh for comping will get you across the road and back, so an extra string may not be necessary; extended voicings may obviate the need for a higher string, as a ninth will sound like mud voiced next to the rood (for obvious reasons). For the latter, better ideas and better ears will give you better solos, not a bigger instrument, although extra strings can be handy for extended arpeggios or whatever you may hear.
So, go with more strings if it lends itself to what you're actually trying to accomplish as opposed to what you *feel* you're trying to accomplish. That just means try using 4 first and see how far you can get with what you have.

Very much agree, very well formulated.

Although I must object to your use of "feel", which clearly ought to had been "think".
Unless you are making conceptual music by far the majority of your musical decisions ought to be based on what you feel rather than what you think.

 

[nonohmic]

Hi All,

A recent move to full time fretless has really piqued my interest in exploring my skills in the Jazz solo space.

I love my 4 string fretless and I know most of the folks are using 5/6 string basses for this kind of playing.

I guess my question is just how much of a difference does it make? Obviously the chordal work makes sense, but I guess more of the standard Jazz solo itself.

Thanks!

Love it on Talkbass when someone asks pretty much exactly the same question you've been pondering. I like Janek's approach a lot and often wonder if I should go high C, but so far I've decided to stick to 4s. Two players in particular convinced me to stick with a four..

Check out Nick Campbell, who shreds on a Mustang bass which has arguably the smallest range out there for a bass player.

Also Rufus Philpott has some great videos on his Insta account where he does some great exercises and solo concepts around and above the 12th fret on a 4 string Jazz (fretted).

https://www.instagram.com/rufusbass/

Edit: also check out Rocco Palladino with Yussef Dayes...killin on a four.

 

[GreyBeard]

Do you feel the need for extended range?

 

[J Wilson]

How many strings is a whole 'nother discussion, but I can definitely say back when I wanted more maneuvering room, a 24-fret neckthrough style bass was the way to go: Far more frets clear of the body and with the smooth heel and typically deep treble side cutaway, playing 'up there' if need be was WAY easier than a 20-odd fret bolt-neck instrument with that dang block for the heel/bolt attachments. Even if a four string is your thing, getting the extra frets, the extra room to work, and the smooth heel and cutaway IS an extended range bass after the he usual FSO basses.

 

[thunesBARROW]

I really like having a C string. The timbre is different from BEADG and I enjoy the tone for soloing. I also prefer the tone for playing chords.

That being said, I don't find a four string limiting for soloing. My EADGC Gibson EB-5 with rounds is a very different vibe than my four string fretless P with flats, and I'm glad I have both!

 

[Dana R Gregory]

The four is more fun to play but I really like the extra low notes on a five. Listen to Kyle Eastwood and Garaj Mahal. Both feature 5 string fretless bass and the sound is awesome. I think it comes down to what song you are playing and if the four is sufficient then by all means stick with it.

 

[Paul New]

Yes.

No.

Maybe.

OK, I don't really know.

 

[climber]

No

 

[Wasnex]

IMHO yes.

I don't generally use the low B very much with traditional jazz. IMHO it doesn't sound right to me.

I use the high C quite a bit when soloing or playing the melody. I don't really care that it doesn't sound like a bass when I am playing the melody.

Way easier to play this melody with a C string IMHO.

 

[Wasnex]

IMHO each person should answer the question for themself.

My #1 bass guitar since about 1995 has been a 6-string (Yamaha TRB6P). IMHO the extra strings eventually facilitate a change or evolution in fretboard logic. I play the 6-string almost exclusively because I feel spending too much time with a 4- or 5-string modifies the automated processes I use to navigate the fretboard. I am more comfortable and confident on the 6-string and prefer to stay that way. It doesn't matter whether the strings are needed for a given song or not.

If you prefer to play basses with less strings .

 

[Paul New]

IMHO each person should answer the question for themself.

My #1 bass guitar since about 1995 has been a 6-string (Yamaha TRB6P). IMHO the extra strings eventually facilitate a change or evolution in fretboard logic. I play the 6-string almost exclusively because I feel spending too much time with a 4- or 5-string modifies the automated processes I use to navigate the fretboard. I am more comfortable and confident on the 6-string and prefer to stay that way. It doesn't matter whether the strings are needed for a given song or not.

If you prefer to play basses with less strings .

Sure. The additional range can be used, or not. Plenty of melody is available to the four, as evidenced by any number of musicians. Or the five, or the six. I like playing the six because I like the sound of the upper register, and the availability of chords or even just nice double stops and I know that at least the possibility of chord melody exists, although I have not pursued that. But on the four I'm just more comfortable, probably because of my experience with double bass. Haven't ever played a five string.

So, yes, I agree. It's entirely up to the musician. Plenty of fantastic musicians stick to the four, and plenty more take advantage of extended range.

Check out Marco on this super cool Ampeg.

 

[Wasnex]

But on the four I'm just more comfortable, probably because of my experience with double bass.

I believe I mentioned, I use one finger per fret (OFPF) on bass guitar and Simandl 1,2,4 on upright.

I never could get comfortable on a fretless BG. I think it's because my hand is not big enough for proper intonation using OFPF. I found it too confusing to use two fingering systems on BG and I am not open to giving up the advantages of OFPF. My solution was to get a 6-string NS Design Electric Upright. I used Simandl fingering and was immediately able to play in tune.

 

[ClusterFlux]

I guess my question is just how much of a difference does it make?

In terms of soloing, it doesn't matter. As already noted, upright bassists solo expertly with 4 strings. Electric bassists do, too.



Jazz solos rarely go below E1, so a 5 isn't all that relevant to soloing. You're only missing out on a handful of high notes by sticking to a 4 string instead of 6 (or an EADGC 5 string). That 6er will be heavier; harder to play, due to the wider neck; will have tighter string spacing; requires constant muting / better muting technique, and so on.

To put it another way: If you need a 5 or 6 string, or simply want to play a 5 or 6 string and have time to experiment, try it. I would't do it because of vague second-order expectations about "what other bassists do."

 

[Neon Blues]

In terms of soloing, it doesn't matter. As already noted, upright bassists solo expertly with 4 strings. Electric bassists do, too.



Jazz solos rarely go below E1, so a 5 isn't all that relevant to soloing. You're only missing out on a handful of high notes by sticking to a 4 string instead of 6 (or an EADGC 5 string). That 6er will be heavier; harder to play, due to the wider neck; will have tighter string spacing; requires constant muting / better muting technique, and so on.

To put it another way: If you need a 5 or 6 string, or simply want to play a 5 or 6 string and have time to experiment, try it. I would't do it because of vague second-order expectations about "what other bassists do."

Yeah for sure. I would be more likely to have a high C than a B.

There's a few really nice fretless 5 I was eyeing but will likely stick with the 4.

 

[Paul New]

Sometimes other bassists do some really cool stuff tho.

I know the OP is not talking about this, but I just want to share Kevin's chord melody.

 

[fdeck]

I enjoy playing lengthy solos. I play a fretless Mustang, with -- to be charitable -- 17 "frets" that are reachable with good intonation. In other words, not much range. Something to consider when talking about upright players is that the upright has the equivalent of more than 24 frets, and the great soloists use all of its range. Also, we've got thumb position, and the bow. It's a different beast.

I'd say that it kind of depends on where you're at on the learning curve of soloing. Standard 4-string is plenty to provide all the challenge you need for learning the rudiments of soloing, and getting confident with it on the bandstand.

Beyond that point, your own soloing will lead you to where you might want to go next, if anywhere. And inspiration from great bassists.

 

[azureblue]

I went to a 5 because I needed a low Eb and D. And It's nice to be able to cover 2 octaves of Bb at the 11th fret. It all depends on your style of soloing..
My observation is that I already have a guitar player in the band..