JBL 4628B FOR BASS?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Brewman2, Jul 11, 2020.


  1. Brewman2

    Brewman2

    Apr 9, 2015
    From what i understand, JBl made those speakers as a Keyboard speakers. How would this be for Bass?
    Midrange drivers are JBL 2118J . Bass drivers are .JBL 2032H 15" .Don't know about the tweeters, my JBL 4628b 'Cabaret' cabinets are missing the original JBL "Baby Butt Cheek(?)" tweeters, but they do make aftermarket replacements.
    I am running old Peavey Tube Stereo 120-120 Power Amp with a Peavey Bass tube /solid state preamp.
    Just a six string player, and asking for a fiend.
     

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    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
  2. Stumbo

    Stumbo Guest

    Feb 11, 2008
    @agedhorse could pontificate on the topic if he so chooses.:)
     
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  3. Just don't tell him you want 30hz out of it.
     
  4. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011
    I used to
    Per the Cabaret Spec sheet they are -10db at 35hz.
     
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  5. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011
    I used to run a pair. The were very HiFi and sounded really nice with bowed string bass. Sweet highs, even mids, and very full, extended lows. If I remember correctly it was fairly easy to overpower them, especially the mid range drivers, but they were always loud enough for my needs in concert band and big band. They are very heavy and bulky (108.5lbs).

    Per JBL's documentation, the correct drivers are E145, 2116H, and 2404H (all 8 ohm drivers). http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Cabaret Series/4628B.pdf
    file:///C:/Users/SANDYB~1/AppData/Local/Temp/4602b-4604b-4612b-4625b-4628b-4691b-4695b-4698b-4699b_manual-1.pdf

    If they do not have the original drivers, I doubt they will sound right, and I would pass.
     
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  6. Redbrangus

    Redbrangus Supporting Member

    Nov 19, 2018
    Under The X In Texas
    I've got a pair of 4628s that I've used for bass some...mostly just as an experiment. The 3-way speaker system is pretty good, but the crossover section could use some work. I bi-amped them using my GK 800RB, which has a variable crossover that goes low enough to be useful for this purpose -- I used about 350 Hz, if memory serves. And I turned the HF unit down completely...those 2402 compression tweeters are bright, to say the least. As I say, I've mostly only done it to play with...I haven't gigged that rig; it's much more speaker system than I needed for my little piddling gigs back when I did have some. My thoughts are this: the 15" driver is an E-145, which does have extended LF response compared to the more usual E140, but much less mid and HF response. In fact, the box IS tuned to 30 Hz, but as already mentioned, the response isn't flat down to there; no one would expect it to be, given the 4 cu. ft. enclosure. The 8" driver, the 2118, is a pretty nice sounding speaker within it's operating range--very hi-fi, but may not be robust enough for use in a loud bass rig. It got loud enough, but I felt like if it was really pushed long and hard like in gig situation, it might not stand up to the abuse. As I say, it's a pretty hi-fi driver and JBL no longer sells recone kits for that driver, so I was reluctant to really push it. The 2402 HF driver is as good as anything out there, but I don't have much need for response up there, so it would be superfluous for my purposes.

    As I mentioned, I did this for an experiment...I'm was interested in building a biamped 2-way box with a cone-type MF driver at the time; since then, I've discovered the Greenboys and I would build a tweeterless one of those if I really wanted/needed to go that direction. As @Wasnex observed, the JBLs are pretty "hi-fi"; if you beefed up the passive crossover a bit, or biamped them, they would make a pretty OK "FRFR" speaker system. If I were going to use that box as a rig, I'd probably replace the E145 with an E140 and retune the box to 40 Hz -- all the Cabaret series cabs that used E140s were tuned to 40 and that's definitely the sweet spot for them. Then I would high-pass the mid driver and just remove the 2402s to my home stereo speakers. Keep in mind that the 4628 weighs in at a little over 100 lbs.

    I bought my pair of 4628s a couple of years ago and paid $400 for the pair -- in serviceable Anvil cases, no less. (I did have to drive 200+ miles.) I figured I couldn't go wrong at that price; the 2402 drivers are easily worth $100 each by themselves. If you keep your eyes peeled, you can find some of this Cabaret-era stuff at bargain prices. The drivers in them were JBL's state of the art at the time, and while there may be somewhat better cone drivers these days, you still won't find a smoother, more robust HF compression driver than the 2402. It's the HF component in several of JBL's larger, well-regarded studio monitors. And the 2118 mid drivers are also still pretty hi-fi by today's standards. I bought a pair of used Cabaret 4612s (2 x 2118s and a 2402 HF unit) with the intention of building new boxes for them and using them for my living room stereo with only minor modifications. (I've got to get around to building those boxes one of these days. ;)) If you think you might like playing through an E140, you could search out one of the Cabaret cabs that used them: the 4627 is a 4 cu.ft box with an E140 and a pretty serious 1" horn driver, for instance. Or there was a single E-140-only cab, the 4690, IIRC, but I've never actually seen one in the wild. But all that old Cabaret stuff used good drivers, so they can be pretty good buys at the right price. One needs to be mindful of the relatively low power handling of those old cone drivers as compared to more modern 15s, but I still regard the sound of an E140 in a 4 cu. ft. box as being a pretty definitive sound.

    Edit: Now that I've waxed so poetically, I've gone back and read the OP; those are definitely not the original 15s for that cab and the mid drivers, being the 4-ohm version (the J suffix), makes them a bit suspect as well. And someone has removed the horn from the driver part of the 2402 and left the horn? That's too bad -- great HF drivers.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
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  7. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011
    I agree they sounded noticeably better biamped. I used a Marshall 3540 that sounded great, but was terribly unreliable. I think I also preferred a crossover frequency around 400hz, but the 2118s would not tolerate high SPL crossed at this frequency. The stock crossovers are 800hz and 3khz.

    I believe you may have the tweeter model mixed up. 2402 is the "bullet".
    images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSq-YWEqExnmL9-C3EOjistrbn0fUK6XJFgEg&usqp=CAU.jpg

    AFAIK, this model used the 2404 "baby butt".
    upload_2020-7-11_5-58-22.jpeg
     
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  8. Redbrangus

    Redbrangus Supporting Member

    Nov 19, 2018
    Under The X In Texas
    You're right. The 2404 is the 'baby-cheek' horn used in the 4628 and the 2402 is the bullet. I think the motor is exactly the same, but with a different waveguide -- and the 2402 may have used a slightly different diaphragm. [See Edit below for correction.] For my money, neither of these drivers has been improved on after all these years; if you need to be really loud up over 5 kHz, there's nothing better. I've got a box full of 2402s that I'd like to dispose of, but the real market for them is in Japan and I don't know how to get them over there. Same goes for a stack of 2440/2441 2" compression drivers -- I think they're very popular in Japan, but I almost can't give them away over here and I have a passel of 'em.

    Edit: Now that I'm thinking about it, the motors in the '02 and '04 couldn't be more different; the 2402 was never 'upgraded' like the larger compression drivers when JBL transitioned from AlNiCo to ceramic magnets. So there are no ceramic magnet 2402s, and no AlNiCo 2404s, since they were introduced after the transition. I guess the 2404 and 2405 slot radiator replaced the 2402 in the JBL lineup. The diaphragms are the same though, or at least they're interchangeable -- I don't have my data books here in front of me to check.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
  9. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
    The Cabaret cabinets did not use the 2032 driver originally. The H version is 4 ohms, easy to destroy with today's higher powered amps.

    The mid drivers are great, but relatively fragile, I reconed a bunch in the day. Cost to recone was pretty high too.

    The Cabaret line was stupid heavy too, if you have to move them, I would pass.

    They are also pretty large, but won't do 30 Hz flat and I would expect them to be -10dB at about 35Hz. I don't think 30Hz is correct. I have the data sheet for this line in my JBL service binder.
     
  10. Redbrangus

    Redbrangus Supporting Member

    Nov 19, 2018
    Under The X In Texas
    I'm not saying they had 30 Hz response, but that the box is tuned to 30 Hz for the E145 driver. And I'm basing that on memory -- I'm too lazy to look it up. :D I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm mistaken; that has been known to happen. My recollection is that the E145 was the only driver that had that recommended box tuning and that the other JBL 15s of the era had 40 Hz as the recommended enclosure tuning.

    And yeah, the 2118 sounds great but is probably too fragile for actual bass guitar use. And they were kind of stupidly expensive to recone way back when, and JBL hasn't made new cones for them in years, I don't think. I've had a couple reconed with after-market "OEM" kits, but they're still sitting in the box they came back in, so I can't attest to the quality of the parts. I have a few of the originals in fairly pristine shape, so some day I'll take the trouble to A-B them to see how they compare; I'd be surprised if the OEMs sound as good the originals, but what are you going to do?
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
  11. I used those JBL baby butt tweeters on PA systems I built back in the day (and before JBL came out with them, I used the EV baby butt tweeter). I wouldn't dream of using them in a cabinet for bass. Too expensive, delicate and the frequency range they reproduce is nothing you want to hear from a bass anyway. The real beauty and claim to fame of those tweeters is wide dispersion --- they distribute the high frequencies very evenly from side to side which was something most horn tweeters never could do well.

    You could probably pull those tweeters and sell them (if they work) for more than the complete speaker cab sells for used.
     
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  12. Virgil Starkwell

    Virgil Starkwell Guest

    Jun 19, 2020
     
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  13. Virgil Starkwell

    Virgil Starkwell Guest

    Jun 19, 2020
    Andy Panda -

    "And yeah, the 2118 sounds great but is probably too fragile for actual bass guitar use. And they were kind of stupidly expensive to recone way back when, and JBL hasn't made new cones for them in years, I don't think. I've had a couple reconed with after-market "OEM" kits, but they're still sitting in the box they came back in, so I can't attest to the quality of the parts. I have a few of the originals in fairly pristine shape, so some day I'll take the trouble to A-B them to see how they compare; I'd be surprised if the OEMs sound as good the originals, but what are you going to do?"


    I have yet to find an after market manufacturer of re-cone kits that provide Thiele-Small data on their, "direct replacement" kits. To A-B an original speaker to an after market re-cone speaker should be conducted by Thiele-Small analysis. They may or may not sound as good as originals, but that assumption is subjective at best.

    And BTW - The 2118 makes for a decent mid-range horn loader.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
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  14. I always cringe at for sale ads of vintage speakers that say they have been reconed as though that's a positive selling point. Most old speakers that have been reconed sound nothing like the originals.
     
  15. nilorius

    nilorius Inactive

    Oct 27, 2016
    Riga - Latvia
    I doubt that this combination is the best way in sound, weight and size, but i can't say more because never tried that combination.
     
  16. Virgil Starkwell

    Virgil Starkwell Guest

    Jun 19, 2020
    There is a model of JBL speaker found on Ebay that has been counterfeited more times than I can remember.

    The 150-4C. It was a 15" woofer designed specifically for horn loading that was developed for AMPEX theater systems in the mid-50's. You will find them sold in pairs, in pristine condition. Very rare to find an original pair, much less a single. I have tested a pair of counterfeits, and for the life of me I couldn't reconcile the T-S parameters. They both had a free air resonance of 80Hz. 80Hz for a low-frequency woofer? The rest of the parameters made absolutely no sense. The 150-4C found it's way in the original Paragon systems prior to the implementation of the LE-15, and was also used in the Hartsfield corner horn. The 150-4 & 4C was the best bass horn driver ever developed.

    The K/E 145 cone is actually cone shaped like the 150-4C, not the Curvalinear shape of the rest of the JBL product line. The 150-4C and K/E 145 cones have smaller piston diameters than other models of JBL 15", but it is also deeper, sporting an increase in volume displacement (Vd).

    Also, the JBL 375 'Bubble Back' compression driver is being counterfeited. The supplier of these units resides in Stanton California.

    Personally, I would not trust any re-coned speaker found on Ebay. The only re-cone speaker I would trust would be an ALTEC Lansing re-coned by Great Plains Audio. JBL, E-V, Jensen; forget it!

    FYI - A D130 is not a D130F. Two different animals. The D130 was developed for HiFi in the early 50's, as was the D131. The D131 was redesigned as the D120F because the D131 could not survive the punishment delivered to it
    by musical instruments. Dick Dale claimed he invented the D130F, which is complete B.S. I'm sure he blew up many D130's, but he was not an engineer by any stretch of the imagination.
     
  17. FranF

    FranF Supporting Member

    Jul 25, 2004
    Northeastern PA
    Great thread! Huge JBL Professional fan. I've been using 4625/E140s since '80 and it is indeed a definitive sound, at least for my bass playing. The 4625, 27 and 28 are all terrific for bass, depending on what's removed, disconnected or plugged up. Worst you'll end up with is a very very good 4625. ;-) I put wheels on mine since yeah, at 88 pounds it's a ballbuster, but it sounds amazing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
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  18. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
    TS parameters have virtually no effect or value above 300Hz. That's not where the audible difference comes from
     
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  19. Virgil Starkwell

    Virgil Starkwell Guest

    Jun 19, 2020
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
  20. Stumbo

    Stumbo Guest

    Feb 11, 2008
    @Virgil Starkwell posted:
    Incorrect.
    Thiele-Small Parameters consist of acoustical, electrical, and mechanical design parameters over the entire frequency range of a dynamic loud speaker. Three different analogies. It is from those parameters that define impedance at those frequencies.
    The 'impedance' rating on a loud speaker is a nominal reading that is typically taken at 1000Hz at 2.83 volts. What matters is the DCR ( D.C. resistance ) so as not to damage an amplifier with a below rated impedance load limit. When playing music through a speaker, the impedance is all over the map.
    Impedance is frequency dependent. A typical cone loud speaker impedance can reach up to 400 ohms as the frequency increases. At that approximate point is where the frequency range tanks due to the limitations of the voice coil
     
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