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Discussion in 'Recordings [BG]' started by SuperDuck, Jul 8, 2008.
Hmm........one more reason.......just another reason.
Do you actually believe that Norah Jones Inc. doesn't know about this by now? They don't care, and neither do I.
The overdub is all about fun, which is something that seems to have challenged Berlin most of his life. Let 'em blow.
Hey JB, if you are out there, keep on keep'n. I think it's fun.
You have NO way of knowing that. You sound like Berlin, dude.
P.S. Fill out your profile!
This is lame. Really, really lame. The concept is lame, the playing is lame, that stereo chorus is lame. Taking writing credit for a commercially available song you have overdubbed yourself on is even more lame.
Lots of people do stuff like this on youtube, those people tend to be kids and amateurs just putting something up for fun. If Mr. Berlin expects to be treated like the world renowned professional he makes himself out to be in his myspace profile he should not be acting like a 14 year old who just discovered the internet.
+/- 1 (I'll explain)
There are 2-3 schools of bass playing. The solo guys and the groove guys. Both are great in their own right but Groove guys are typically the ones that land the gigs and get paid the most. I personally consider myself a groove guy (or at least a want-to-be groove guy). Victor Wooten's "Show of Hands" is cool but I'm more into songs and grooves so that is not what I do personally. Pino Palladino or James Jamerson interest me more than Victor Wooten because they support a good song and make it better with their groove.
Then you have some guys who kind of straddle the fence of groove and soloing. Marcus Miller arranges and produces some nice songs and supports them with a nice groove while at the same time also sharing the spotlight. I also think Jaco was that way sometimes. These guys are rare and far and few between. Successfully straddling the fence of groove and soloing is hard to do and most have to choose a side because they are not good enough to do both or they choose not to try. I prefer to be a groove guy and I am happy with that. Plus being a groove guy helps pay the bills.
+1 this sums it all up!
Let's apply those same standards.
I'd say that door swings BOTH ways:
Name your favorite artist and then ask yourself if you think it's right/legit/honest if someone else decided they were going to "contribute" (as Berlin did) to that artist's song, and claim or intone a co-authorship/co-creatorship to the songs of your favorite artist. Unfortunately, you have no info in your profile, so I can't use examples that would most resonate with you.
The truth is, that the issue is not "Jeff-vs-the world" or some double standard that I hold Berlin to, but not anyone else. I can tell you that I would be equally as annoyed no matter which bassist (or even my favorites- pick any) that was soloing over Norah Jones, and then claiming co-whatever credits to songs that were always hers from the get-go.
I think the guy's a great player. You'll find no appologies from me on that. However, what I've seen over the years suggests, at least in my mind, that is success has been through sheer technical and music brilliance and force of will and *despite, and not because of* his personality. This latest Norah Jones thing merely underscores this observation, at least in my mind.
+1. Sums it up. I don't care what he's playing, the concept already ruined any chance it had.
As for a bass solo in pop music - Still think he's delusional. It's not going to happen. Jeff Schmidt already hit the nail on the head. I'm not against expanding the role of an instrument, but to think that the pop music industry is going to humour this idea of "innovation over profit" is just naive.
He didn't do that.
And I'll say again that the Jones people don't care a hoot about that little diddy. If they did, it would have been gone long ago -- the music industry is a small world.
Some of you guys are way too hostile. I can't figure it out.
Moving on, did any of you people take a look at the "friends comments" or whatever they call it over at myspace? Did you see that "Crystal Fawn" chick?
This may not be safe for work in some places:
Edit: Scroll down........
I respectfully dissagree.
The Jones people probably don't know it doesn't exists. I'm pretty sure they don't scour (or haven't yet) the great big internet (instead of the "small music industry") to find violations. But that doesn't make it right or even legal to claim co-authorship or to intone it. Note that NO effort was made to clarify this issue on Jeff's site.
Too hostile? I mention that the door swings both ways, offer a different (but fair) perspective and a way to talk about this which effectively takes the "everyone's out to get Jeff" component out of the picture, and I also openly and unappologetically claim he's a great bassist. And I'm considered hostile?
And again, I ask if someone claimed or intoned co-authorship on your favorite music, or even your own, you think that's perfectly fine and acceptable?
I get it now: don't say a negative word about Jeff, or you're "a hater." Ok.
I didn't mean to suggest that Mr.Berlin wasn't a nice person or to insult him in any way.
I've never met him & I've heard very little of his music.
What I ment to say was this. A lot of great musicians,well sometimes they aren't nice people.
I was in a houseband for a local radio show & we worked with a lot of famous&up & coming musicians.
Many of the one's I've met turned out to be 1st rate buttholes! Most were really nice guys.
I play a lot in Bridgeport,PA.That's where Jaco's dad lived(Jack Pastorius R.I.P.)&Jaco himself was known to make the local rounds.I never met him but I can't take my bass out of it's case before somebody tells me another Jaco story.None of them flattering.Some local players wouldn't let Jaco into their homes.
That doesn't take away his musical genius.
I'm an unschooled player(I'm not proud of that!) but I've read some of Mr.Berlin's old bass player columns & thought he was dead on most of the time.I found a couple of vinyl LP's of Jeff Berlin's that I never listened to.
Maybe it's time to put them on.
Prove me wrong. Send an email [like it hasn't been done already], and we'll see how fast how they don't care.
My fair perspective is that Berlin is having some fun in a very informal way on myspace. I hope he does more of it.
Berlin has long preached what's practical for a bass player to learn and play in order to get called. Ironically, blowing over an entire pop tune is an example of what most people don't want from a bassist.
I have no idea what any of this means. I think you have me confused with someone else. In 1996 I wasn't even playign bass.
I'm with you in that I disagree with overdubbing oneself onto someone elses work. I do think that the level of vitriol and anger directed at Jeff for this is out of proportion to what his supposed offense is. Five ir six pages of really angry remarks over this is a little over the top, it does not mean that the guy can't be criticized. My opinion is that if anyone is firing off a respoonse to this situation and they are truely angry they need to watch the evening news and get some perspective, it's a waste of time and energy.
It was not clear to me that he was claiming co-authorship of Nora Jones tune but he definitely needs to make that more clear, I do not believe he could be that foolish or unethical. My impression was that he was playing over tunes that he felt most people would know he obviously did not write and indulging in a little jazz wankery at the expense of those tunes. One of the topics in his blog was the desire to solo in a pop tune and it looked to me that he was giving and example of that.
Again, I am not saying that I agree with particular situation or that the guy can not be called out.
If you were not playing in 1996 I am officially depressed. I listened to the tunes on your myspace page and that was some amazing stuff.
When you have "Norah Jones & Jeff Berlin" as a credit on a song when you click on it and listen to it, what do you think like 95 average viewers out of 100 would think? Hmmm? They would think that Jeff co-wrote or co-authored the song. Why?Obviously they're not just indicating who played on these full-band songs. It's not a duet as just two individuals playing just two instruments together.
Again, Jeff goes to bo effort or pains to clarify what is going on, and what it seems to me that he is certainly fine with allowing an impression or belief that he and Norah have worked together on this recording when they did not.
What I've said about this is on record, and when you are interested in having a dialogue about the points/opinions I offer instead of ignoring them, you can hit me up offline, anytime. The door is always open. I've said all I'm going to say publically about this so please have the last word on it. Or not. I'm moving on.
Have a nice day.
Come on, who is really going to Berlin's page but musicians [bassists primarily]?
LOL, that's what I thought when I read that.
I really do dig Berlin's playing and have most of his work, but this is a little hard to defend. Plus, when did adding a bass part ever get anybody any songwriting credit? Jamerson would have had some cash if that was the case.