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Just got the first of the new AVATAR compact cabs.

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Lex P., May 1, 2003.

  1. Lex P.

    Lex P. You've got it awful loud -Kathy P. Supporting Member

    Mar 19, 2003
    Yesterday I received the first of the new Avatar front ported compact speakers. A CB112 and a CB115. Initial reaction to the looks was very favorable.They are well built and seem solid. Though they are not as compact as their predecessors they are certainly compact compared to my Mesa Boogie 2x15.The only thing I plan on changing is to replace the 1/4" jacks with speakons and heavier gauge wire as long as I'm at it.

    After unpackaging them I plugged them into my F1-X preamp feeding my QSC PLX 2402 which was running 750 watts @ 4 ohms through one channel.. The sound was very pleasing, good punch with a nice P-Bass type bark to them. Playing at high (ear ringing) volume they did not break up at all. These cabs do not have the deep tone that my MB 2x15 has, however lasts nights band practice was the real test. They cut through two loud guitars with flying colors. When walking up from low E to A on the E string you could clearly here every note. The P-Bass grunt was clear and present. My band mates all agreed that the bass was sounding good tonight.

    I have owned many different kinds and brands of cabs over the years. Eden D410T & D210T, Bag End S15-D & S15X-D, Ampeg SVT 410hlf,
    Mesa Boogie Diesel 2x15, (still have that) Acme B2 Series II, IMHO the Avatar cabs hold their own quite well. The only cabs I ever sold and still missed were the Bag Ends. When I consider that I got two Avatars for the price of one S15-D I will pickup two more Avatars before I would go any other way.

  2. bluebyrd


    Jun 12, 2000
    Hi Lex. I was interested in a CB115H cab from Avatar. Did you deal with Dave directly, or send your info thru e-mail? I'm leary of sending all that info thru unprotected e-mail. How long did the cabs take to get to you? And did you use UPS or FedEx?

    Also, would that 15" cab be a good stand alone cab? I really want to stay with just one cab, and I really like that warm 15" sound. I'll be playing a Ric 4003 and a Schecter active bass thru an Acoustic 370 head, at least to start with. I'll be getting another head eventually, or maybe a rig of some kind, but that'll be next year probably. I like playing Motown, older rock and reggea, to give you and idea of the sound I'm after.

    Thanks for any help.
  3. Lex P.

    Lex P. You've got it awful loud -Kathy P. Supporting Member

    Mar 19, 2003
    I called Dave and gave him the info over the phone. He sent it FedEx I don't know if I had a choice of shipping routes. The shipping box arrived with a few good gashes in it but the cabinet inside was untouched. Dave packs it pretty well. I ordered it on Friday and it arrived on Wednesday. He sends then out the same day you order them depending if they are in stock or not. I've been trying for several weeks to order a B115 to be used as a sub for my P.A. (have one allready) and Dave won't take the order unless he has them in stock.

    I think you could use the CB115 stand alone it sounds pretty good. However when you add in the CB112 it sure fills in the midrange and upper registers. It makes the sound noticabley fuller. The questions I would have with going with only the 115 is volume and it might not be deep enough for reggae. Adding in the 112 the volume difference is noticeable. I had only played bass through 12's once thru a Vox bass rig that was back in the early seventies. They sure round out the tone. You might want to consider 2 CB115's. I think two would give a deep enough tone and volume to handle reggae.

    I have no affiliation with AVATAR I only have talked to Dave on the phone and am pretty happy with the whole outfit.

  4. Gabu


    Jan 2, 2001
    Lake Elsinore, CA
    Wow, way cool. :) I had been planning on buying a second set of compact 15 and 12 cabs (for louder shows) from Avatar and was bummed when they changed them. But maybe it's for the best. :D Now I wonder if, when I get to that point, it will make more sense to buy the old compacts used or sell my old compacts and get two sets of new ones... decisions, decisions... ;)
  5. Lex P.

    Lex P. You've got it awful loud -Kathy P. Supporting Member

    Mar 19, 2003

    I haven't heard the older compacts but I would have to believe these go a little deeper. And I really like the front porting. Nice to push it back to the wall if you have to or when you don't have a back wall I think it sounds punchier with the front slots.

  6. erikwhitton

    erikwhitton Guest

    Sep 20, 2002
    Portland, ME USA
    I'm considering buying one of the 12" cabs for upright. I've never seen/heard an Avatar - can anyone let me know if this will/won't work?

    Also - what amp should i get to power it? I'm hoping to find one for apprx $500.

    Would I just be better off getting a SWR workingman 12 or equivilant?

  7. Steve S

    Steve S

    Jul 26, 2000
    I also have the rear ported 210 and 115 and am thinking of getting the new front ported ones...at least one for starters. How would a front ported 210 and a rear ported 115 sound?
  8. ESP-LTD


    Sep 9, 2001
    I don't know much about the harmonic content of upright, but I'd guess that it has lots of mids and highs, and not that much fundamental. I think either the old (which I have) or new B112 would be a fine choice.

    I think lots of upright folks use G-K 400 amps.
  9. lo-freq

    lo-freq aka UFO

    Jan 19, 2003
    DFW, Texas
    If the only difference is the location of the port, as long as the port is not shoved up against a wall, it should make no difference in the sound of the cabinet at all.

    The following is an excerpt from one of Acme's web pages discussing port placement.
    Port Placement: Front, Rear, or Side?

    An Oversimplification

    (Terry Buddingh mentioned in his generally careful review on the Low B-1 in "Bass Player" magazine, that I had said that "Port placement is irrelevant, because port output is omnidirectional. That is an oversimplification of what I said. For those of your to whom this is a matter of great concern, I have posted here a short discussion of the matter, which is in the owner's manual, and is updated whenever I can think of better words to explain it.)

    The Merits of Front or Rear Port Placement

    Bass players seem to enjoy discussing the merits of front or rear placement of ports. Based on their experiences, many players and manufacturers alike are convinced that front placement has distinct advantages over rear placement, or vice-versa. When asked to justify their opinions, these partisans will invariably refer to vague impressions and gut feelings. They will never talk about wave propagation or Helmholtz resonation.

    Pressure Devices and Their Behaviour

    In fact, a bass-reflex enclosure, at the frequencies where the port contributes to the system’s output, is a pressure device, as opposed to a wave device. So the interaction of the enclosure and the port, and the port's position with respect to the woofer, itself, are unaffected by any directional activity. Direction is utterly unimportant. By way of illustration, examine another pressure-related model, a balloon. As you inflate a balloon, does it expand on one direction only, or in all directions at once?

    The Omnidirectionality of Low Frequencies

    Only after a port’s output leaves the cabinet, and enters the environment, does it assume the characteristics of a wave, one of which is direction of propagation. Direction does assume importance when speaking of waves. Only, however, at frequencies where the size of the source is large compared to the wavelength under consideration. The highest frequencies at which the port in our Low-B systems contribute to system output have wavelengths of 14 feet or so. The speakers are obviously quite small compared to these wavelengths, and the port output is omnidirectional. Again, port placement is irrelevant to system performance.


    I was told by a guy that builds speakers that front ports work better if you are playing outdoors.
  10. bentem


    Oct 18, 2002
    Rockville, MD
    I like the looks of the old compact cabs much better, these new ones look kind of weird, and theyre not that compact

    If they sound good, though then it dosent realy matter i guess. Also, some if the pics on the avatar website arent very good(b210).
  11. jasonbraatz


    Oct 18, 2000
    Oakland, CA
    i use the old b112 with my upright all the time, and it sounds incredible with both my rack system and my amp bh-260.

    how much more low end would you say the 15 has over the 12? i'm wondering because they're supposedly tuned to within 5 hz of each other.
  12. Lex P.

    Lex P. You've got it awful loud -Kathy P. Supporting Member

    Mar 19, 2003
    You can tell the CB115 is deeper sounding then the CB112. I suppose some of it could be due to the physical size of the speaker.

    Not only has the port been moved to the front the box was made 6 inches higher also. Dave told me that he talked to an Emminence engineer to find out how much more box volume would be needed to make the cabs sound deeper. And they didn't have to grow very much for a fair improvement in the specs. I would have liked to see the option of a Kappa 12 instead of the Delta 12, even if I had to pay a few bucks more.

    I'll grant that they aren't the same as the high priced "boutiqe" speakers but IMHO they sound very good. When I play through a PA I go direct off of my F1-X so how much bass rig tone do the masses actually hear?

  13. Fishface


    Jul 26, 2002
    Denver, Colorado
    Has anybody mixed the old & new B112? What are the tonal differences of the two?

    I have the old style which I really like (especially the size). The new one looks big compared to the old. I really don't care where the ports are. I usually play indoors and am near a wall, and on the occasional outside gig I am supported by the PA.
  14. lo-freq

    lo-freq aka UFO

    Jan 19, 2003
    DFW, Texas
    If anyone out there has or gets two of the new CB112s and a B210, please let us know how these sound together.

    This is one of the systems I'm considering.
  15. Steve S

    Steve S

    Jul 26, 2000
    Thanks for the information Lo-Freq.
  16. lo-freq

    lo-freq aka UFO

    Jan 19, 2003
    DFW, Texas
    You are welcome.

    One more thing, besides the comment by the guy that builds speakers saying that front ports work better outdoors, he also said that it is better to have all your cabs ported the same way (i.e. all front ported or all rear ported).
    I had never heard that before.
    I can sort of see proximity to room boundaries affecting rear ported cabs more, but other than that I don't see a reason for this.
    Can anyone explain or validate this?
  17. squire_pwr


    Apr 15, 2003
    San Diego, CA.
    I can't explain anything about ports, but I am curious about how the 2x12 sounds in comparison to the 1x12, other than being louder due to have more speaker surface area. Anyone have both or care to offer their best guess? :)
  18. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    I was surprised at how big the new compact cabinets are...they're not that much smaller than the B115 and B212...

    Lex, why would you have wanted a Kappa? The Kappa would have less low end than the Delta 12LF.

    I've always dealt with Dave directly over the phone. 90% of the time he answers himself, the other 10% I left a message and he called me back within minutes.

    You won't find better customer service anywhere as far as I'm concerned...
  19. jasonbraatz


    Oct 18, 2000
    Oakland, CA
    so if i were to mix one of these cabs with my old style b112 to be able to crank 1000w through the pair and have it reasonably handle low b's - you'd recommend the cb115?
  20. Hey, I plugged my upright into a workingmans 15 combo amp last night at a jazz fest. It was an older model and let me tell you it was too damn trebly (this coming from a 15 really got me pissed). I got 'enough' low end in, but since it wasn't really my amp I wasn't too familiar with it and didn't want to EQ it too much. BUt when I turned the treble down below 12 oclock and the low up to about 3, low mids to about 2, high mids to 12, it was still trebly...I had the master volume at 5 or 6. No farting or distortion, but it was a defined sound. Not very boomy, but that was bad. THe electric was plugged into it too at the same settings and it was ok, again, a little trebly. I didn't like that amp really. Maybe ebcause it was an older model. Im so happy I didn't decide on purchasing it on musiciansfriend or something. Get the Avatar 1x12, or even a 15. And check out some used hartke heads. Right now I'm saving for an avatar CB cab to go with my hartke 3500... the 3500 will allow more tone shaping than the SWR combos, believe me. Right now I'm using a hartke 120 watt 2x12 combo amp that has one speaker facing down, and the tone is pretty nice for upright and electric, so I can imagine how much more power the avatar will be able to take in, allowing better volume and tone.