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Just received my Avatar B112

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by BillyB_from_LZ, May 31, 2002.


  1. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Chicago
    My Avatar B112 arrived yesterday.

    So far I've only messed around with it at home and am quite impressed. I'm not sure how it would compare to other 1x12s but it meets my needs and you can't beat the price ($199 plus shipping).

    It's loaded with an Eminence Kappa 12 and a Foster horn tweeter. The box is the same size as the Compact 115 (17 by 17 by 16) with two 3-7/8 in dia. ports. Test results show a tuning frequency of 77 Hz.

    It is kind of lacking in lows by itself...but really comes to life on top of a Compact 115. Togther they make a great sounding, highly portable 34 by 17 by 16 in. stack.

    The B112 adds some really nice upper mids and highs that the Compact 115 lacks.

    Check it out!
     
  2. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    nice!

    avatar has always made gig worthy boxes. i'd love to hear a pair of 'em.
     
  3. K Dubbs

    K Dubbs Just graduated from OSU, Go Bucks!

    Mar 16, 2002
    Toledo, Ohio
    i hate to be cynical or mean, but this type of thing frustrates me. It's great that avatar puts out their stuff at such great prices, however not a single one of their cabs has appropriate dimensions or porting. Their cabs using 10's don't have any low end, their big 15 has low end, but isn't tuned correctly and the dimensions are too big. Then comes their new 12. Aggie Berg and other "big name" cab manufacturers don't seem to have problems tuning their cabinets correctly or getting low end outa cabs w/ 12's in em. The avatar cab uses a kappa 12, which should be able to produce good low end under ideal cab construction conditions, but Avatar apparently decided that bass cabs shouldn't produce low end. What gives? I'd love to support a company trying to cut people a deal and buy their products, but either Avatar's bass cab designers are clueless as to how to design deep diving cabs with ideal dimensions/porting or they apparently believe that bass players don't need low end.
     
  4. Wxp4759cb

    Wxp4759cb

    Nov 23, 2000
    Kansas City, MO
    I think Avatar contracts out for the actual cabinets. They buy them in mass, and then finish them and put the speakers in. Because of this they don't get to design the boxes, so they just put the speakers in boxes designed for other speakers. I'm not sure, but that is my guess.

    But if you like the way it sounds thats all that matters.
     
  5. CS

    CS

    Dec 11, 1999
    UK
    I would guess that there is a reason that Avatar's cabs are cheap and not perfect sounding but Berg EU etc are expensive and cause many players to go warm and fuzzy inside.

    Often a product is expensive because a maker spent years refining a product, using new materials, making tooling etc. Buying a speaker from A and a cab from B and wiring up a 1/4 in jack is going to be the cheapest option if not the 'best'.

    CS tip for the future-eliptical plastic cabinets, you heard it here first.
     
  6. Quadzilla

    Quadzilla Supporting Member

    I spoke with Dave from Avatar on this subject. While he will tell you that he is fairly new to cabinet making (3 or 4 years), he has been consulting with Eminence on his cab dimensions, porting, etc. Dave has also been an avid guitarist and bassist for 20ish years. He tests his designs for sound and warmth. One of his good friends ,Larry (can't remember his last name), is the guitarist for Neal Young and also test Dave's guitar and bass cabs.

    So believe it or not, there is actually some testing, R&D (working directly with Eminence ussing their software and speaking with them), and thought put into building these cabs. Point is, they sound damn good so DON'T JUDGE THEM UNTIL YOU HEAR THEM.

    How can any of you out there who have never heard them tell the rest of us how they sound? There are plenty of BIG cab makers out there who build cabs that don't have dimensions and porting that would match what a computer program says would sound good but somehow still do. I will be receiving a B112 also and am going to write a review here on it. I am going to try to get my hands on one or two more 1x12 cabs of othere makers (whats the return policy at Mars, Guitar Center :)).
     
  7. K Dubbs

    K Dubbs Just graduated from OSU, Go Bucks!

    Mar 16, 2002
    Toledo, Ohio
    alright, thanks for the info everybody. All i'm sayin is that its a shame that avatar's 12 or 10 cabs don't have bottom end, and that can be confirmed by some of the people who have these cabs. I personally dig that deep dippin bottom bass sound, so avatar cabs i guess (minus the big 15) aren't really for me. Its also a shame that i can't support their effort to build and sell quality cabs at low prices
     
  8. ndjx

    ndjx

    Oct 26, 2001
    MN
    So I'm guessing that picture it fits perfectly right on top of the compact 15?
     
  9. Captain Awesome

    Captain Awesome

    Apr 2, 2001
    PDX
    They are the exact same dimensions. I'm going to get a 210 cab from them, so I guess I'll find out for myself if the "no bottom end" theory is valid or not.
     
  10. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Chicago
    The quality of sound of bass cabinets, like food and styles of music rely heavily on personal preference.

    I found that though experience, bass cabs that are inefficient and deep sounding (Acme B2) didn't work well for me in a too loud rock/alternative band. The B2 was sitting on top of a homebrew EV TL606 cabinet (loaded with an EVM 15B). The EV, while tuned to 55 Hz, was happy as a clam and put out all the low end I needed while the Acme was deep but so inefficient that it wasn't loud enough even when getting 700+ watts from my PLX2402.

    While the graphs of the Avatars might not look "ideal" on paper, they sound good in reality. Granted, I haven't gigged with mine yet but they compare to my EV TL606 so I'm certain that they'll be great.

    The art of bass reflex design really is an art. The formulas that we get from the web are one particular type of design (4th order Butterworth). Going back to Thiele and Smalls original works show that other alignments (their words for designs) work too, but don't give a pretty graph. They could sound better though. And in this case "better" means, punch more, not get muddy, etc.

    The B112 fits perfectly on top of the C15.

    When I was ordering the C15s (I have two) Dave told me that he owns the company that builds the cabinets too. Avatar is three folks (Dave, his son and a helper) that install drivers, box and ship cabinets.

    Remember it's all personal preference and what sounds good to the user and helps you make the music that you want to make is the gear that's right for you.

    Here's a picture of the B112 on top of a Compact 115.

    Take care
     
  11. Kazu

    Kazu

    Jun 2, 2002
    Wilmington, NC
    So the Avatar 1x15s sound pretty good? I like their size. I have a friend who puts two 1x15s of that size next to each other underneath his 4x10 and he reports that it gives him a huge sound. In my mind, a 4x10 plus 2x15 combination seems like an ideal rig (I'm going with the 4x10, 1x15 at this time); I like the sound of a 2x15 though it needs a 4x10 or 2x10, I think, for the highs. Two Avatar 1x15s underneath a good 4x10 might sound good.

    But, back to my first question: So, the Avatar 1x15s sound pretty good (compared to significantly more expensive 1x15s) or no? If not, what mid/hi $ 1x15 would y'all recommend to go with a 4x10?

    Kazu
     
  12. Quadzilla

    Quadzilla Supporting Member

    I have the "big" Avatar 15". They also make a compact one. I can tell you that the big one is thunderous. According to the cab building/port guys here the 1x15 cab (agian the big one) is built with the proper dimensions, porting, etc. It sounds wonderful. I have read here that the compact version does not have enough volume (size wise) to be efficient, but then again I hear it sounds good as well.
     
  13. So believe it or not, there is actually some testing, R&D (working directly with Eminence ussing their software and speaking with them), and thought put into building these cabs. Point is, they sound damn good so DON'T JUDGE THEM UNTIL YOU HEAR THEM.


    ---- we need an Avatar vs. the world shootout, if anyone lives near each other! :)

    Same bass, same amp ---- then compare the avatars to other speakers, *blindfold*.

    Good comparisons might be between the Carvin 210 and the Bagend compact 15, which Avatar seems to compete directly against.
    MM
     
  14. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Chicago
    I don't think you could lose with an Avatar B115. The Compact 15 was the choice for me because I wanted something small that still had adequate bottom end.

    On paper the Compact 15 (C15) might look weak, but it sounds great. The B115 uses the same driver (Eminence Kappa 15) in a larger cabinet. It's a perfect size for underneath a 4x10. If I were using 4x10s, I would have gone with B115s or found some SWR Big Bens. But my back is shot and my doctor says not to carry anything heavier than 50 lbs.

    Plus, I wanted to be able to haul four cabinets (two for each side of the drummer), my rack, a couple of basses and a bin of cables and stuff without having to get a bigger vehicle. My hatchback is big enough to fit two Goliaths, a pair of Avatar B115 sized 1x15s and all the other stuff that I mentioned but the rack was strapped in the front seat and I had no room for a friend ; - )

    I didn't compare the Avatars to anything other than a homebrew EV TL606 cabinet with an EVM 15B, nor do I care to. The C15 has all the lows that the EV cabinet does and it is quite a bargain. I got mine on eBay (from Avatar) and the price for a brand new, finished speaker system was barely more than what I could buy a Kappa 15 for with no cabinet.

    Dave offers a 14 day money back guarantee so if you didn't like them, you'd be out the cost of shipping...

    Good luck!!!
     
  15. Dean_CustomJazz

    Dean_CustomJazz Guest

    Jan 23, 2002
    woburn
    all i can say is, "THE GAS HAS AWAKEND"
     
  16. ndjx

    ndjx

    Oct 26, 2001
    MN
    Hey Dean I know you were thinking of getting a B112 from Avatar... wouldn't it be smarter to get the B115 so your Goliath Jr. could fit on top correctly?
     
  17. geshel

    geshel

    Oct 2, 2001
    Seattle


    But you've already told us, they sound "damn good".

    [quote/]There are plenty of BIG cab makers out there who build cabs that don't have dimensions and porting that would match what a computer program says would sound good but somehow still do.
    [/QUOTE]

    Examples, please?

    Why do I have to keep saying it? Computer programs don't say what sounds good. They show how much output to expect at certain frequencies with a given design.
     
  18. Quadzilla

    Quadzilla Supporting Member

    *************************************
    Geshel you asked for examples please. Well here are a couple:

    Bgavin points out a couple here from Flight and Carvin Link
    MikeyD points to how the Ampeg SVT 8x10 goes falls down at 60hz here Link

    Another Carvin, too small cab for speaker here by BGAvin: Link
    BGAvin with Peavey 4x10 not tuned right for bass:
    Link
    More Peavey and Flight stuff:
    Link
    Just a few examples of people on this forum showing cabs with not-so-good specs for cab size and porting. Shall I gather more?
     
  19. geshel

    geshel

    Oct 2, 2001
    Seattle
    OK, see you made it sound as though these cabinets had ACTUAL performance that was better (or at least different) than the computer models. I see no evidence of that. I see a lot of threads where people have pointed out that various speaker cabinets aren't designed to produce deep bass, and where people's experience backs this up.

    In the first thread, bgavin simply describes what the response of that speaker in that cabinet is (the Flite 18B).

    From the Peavey thread, Matthias wrote: "However I did not like the Peavey 412 at all. It is very loud, yes, but it lacks some ... bottom, which I would expect from a cab of this weight and size..."

    For the SVT, MikeyD was merely stating a fact. Nothing about computer models. The SVT rolls off (and was in fact designed to do so, probably using slide-rules :) but with the same equations used by WinISD and PerfBox) above the fundamentals of the lowest bass strings. It sounds fine that way - plenty loud and punchy. People who want the low stuff add EQ - with eight tens (in a sealed box), it can handle it.

    Once again, the Carvin 1x18 thread - bgavin simply points out that the cab is not designed, and would be a poor choice, for low-F# reproduction.

    Yes you did post links to many threads with information on how so many bass guitar cabinets aren't designed with sub-bass in mind. You can post more if you want, you're actually making my point for me (with some help from bgavin of course :) ).

    (from another angle, what I was asking for were examples of computer programs that would say whether or not a speaker design "sounds good". They don't exist.)
     
  20. geshel

    geshel

    Oct 2, 2001
    Seattle
    Actually, it uses the Delta 12. Which isn't really any good for low bass. Flattest alignment is .74 cu. ft box tuned to 74Hz. Yuck! Can't get any lower than 50Hz out of it really.