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Kappalite 3015 for Bag End?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by lbwdog, Aug 22, 2007.


  1. Okay, I have a cab that is virtually identical in dimensions to an S-15B (2 cu. ft.). At present it is sealed but my thoughts are to cut a rear port like the Bag End and load it with a Neo 15"

    My goal is to have a second small cab to compliment my G-K Neo112 for gigs that require a little more oomph than the single twelve.

    A few months ago acouple of TB speaker gurus advised me on port size using a JBL E140 but I really want to go with a Neo if possible. Any suggestions?
     
  2. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    I put a 4 ohm Kappa Pro LF (non neo) into my S15D and it was noticeably louder and bass-ier. I know its a little bit of apples and oranges there, but hey it might help in someway. I definitely prefer the tone of the Kappa driver vs the BE stock driver.
     
  3. basss

    basss Supporting Member

    Aug 27, 2001
    NY
    I have a 3015 loaded in a Lopoline cab. I changed the porting to tune it a bit lower. Sounds great - loud, punchy, not huge but enough lows- weighs about 36lbs.
     
  4. What size and shape is the port in an s-15d? I've never seen one so I'm trying to grt an idea.
     
  5. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    I think its 3.5inches? Maybe 4. Its pretty big at any rate. The bag end website probably has the exact specs.
     
  6. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    It doesn't matter as long as you get the right tuning frequency and it doesn't chuff at high SPL. I imagine a 3" diameter port will be fine. Have a go with WinISD to see what tuning frequency gets the optimal response in such a small cab.

    Alex
     
  7. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    3" is pushing it with a fifteen. I'd consider 4" the minimum for bass use, 6" for subwoofer.
     
  8. LBWDOG,

    Keep in mind that the S15B-D is a whole different animal than the popular S15-D (if I understand the model you are referring to). The smaller S15-D has just a round cutout on the back for a port, with no tube of any kind.
     
  9. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    Interesting - I'd have thought the undersized cabinet would reduce the low frequency response by such an amount that the port gain and thus max air velocity would be quite low unless tuned particularly high.

    Alex
     
  10. That's why I come to you guys who have knowledge of such things. My technical expertise on the physics of these matters may be a tad above (or below) the average TB'er. And, I wouldn't know where to start with WIN ISD.

    Trying to put together my vision of the end result mandates that I ask!! I'm just an old bass player who is looking for a good sound out of minimum size equipment. Not to mention parts and pieces I have laying around collecting dust. Right now I have a JBL K140 in it and it just don't got no balls. You know what I'm talking about!

    WHACKER: Yes I am referring to the smaller cab, 18"x18"x15" (man, does Bag End have confusing model numbers or what?)
    It's actually the speaker section of a 20 year old Acoustic combo that I cut the top, amp chassis section off. It is virtually identical to the S-15D in dimensions only not ported.
    No, Bag End doesn't include specs or even pictures of the rear on their website, and I've never seen one in person. I'm basing all this on opinions and reviews of S-15 users and figured a neo 15 would be a good compliment to the GK neo112 if it'll work in this cab! I just need to know what size hole to cut in the back of this thing....thanks guys..E
     
  11. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    An undersize box will restrict low frequency response but the volume of air going through the port remains the same. Try it in WinISD. Changing Vb alone does not alter vent mach, you must change both Vb and Fb.
     
  12. So, Bill, Alex, (greenboy where are you?), What size hole do I need to start cuttin' on this thing for a neo3015? ..... Or should I keep the JBL in it?.... Or should I get my EVM 15B reconed (thanks,Katrina) and use that?
     
  13. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    I don't see the point of suffocating a driver that way. That's too small for any fifteen that's supposed to do bass. I'm actually going to be building a new baffle for a cab that's 2.4 cubic feet because it wasted the response of the driver it came with. In goes a 12" and coax 6" or something similar. Sure, I lose a couple dB in sensitivity, but I gain the SPL back through power handling and xmax, and get something that sounds much better at any volume without a ridiculously distorted midbass hump.
     
  14. basss

    basss Supporting Member

    Aug 27, 2001
    NY
    Depends on your needs. If you need to fill a large club with low end rumble it won't work. If you need a portable loud rig for a small club it should work fine.
     
  15. G.B. I kinda figured that might be your response knowing how you feel about appropriate cab volume. I even thought about the same thing myself.

    I got the GK neo112 last week and it has a great tone for me but at a not too terribly high volume it started to fart out, especially with the Jaguar bass. So I start thinking about making use of this 2 cu. ft. cab I've had for years and it just so happens to be the same dimensions as the Bag Ends.

    Now, I've never used a Bag End before but there are oodles of devotees around here so there you are.

    I just might rethink the 15 and look at finding a way to load this thing with a neo 12. I might be better served by selling the empty cab and getting another 112neo. I'm still wanting one of those Carvin 1503s too but don't have as much space to store speaker cabinets as Tom Bowlus.

    Just one more personal note. I could live out the rest of my useful days as a bass player without a tweeter but I wish more of these manufacturers would incorporate a good midrange driver in their cab designs.
     
  16. My (ancient) Bag End II is 18x18x15, has a 5" port in the back, and loaded with an EV-B sounds friggin' enormous. It will fart, but with judicious EQ you'll get a lot of sound, but not many super-lows, out of that cab and speaker. The fat low mids sit great in a mix, to my ear.
     
  17. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    Well, I'd even dump my Ampeg Extreme 1832 big rig if there was a local buyer and I'd get a second LS3105 and give it a Kappalite 3015LF. Easier to handle than a 210 and actually taking a smaller footprint (19" x 15"), no gaps or huge peaks in response and with drivers that can handle any type of EQ or none, and unlike almost any smaller lighter bass cabs around it's fartproof until way past its thermal rating. I mean, when I need less bass I can roll some off and gain headroom, but with the smaller Bagends I would just feel gutted all the time. And actually its MID-bass that makes things boomy and this cab doesn't have mid-bass flab unlike so many fifteens cabs.

    What am I saying? One GREAT cab beats having several mediocre somewhat hamstrung ones, and two of that cab would be awesome for the loudest gigs like some of the PA-unsupported outdoor parties I play.

    In fact after thinking about it last night I probably won't rebaffle and fill that 115 cab I told you about because I'm not going to need any more cabs and I'd just be disappointed in something that either can't make the SPL, or can't make bass when demanded, or is hampered by excursion when the going gets rough. I'll probably just take the thing out to the garage and store stuff in it.
     
  18. bigfiddle

    bigfiddle

    Aug 25, 2006
    Dallas, Texas
    S15-D = 5.5" hole carpet to carpet.
     
  19. The 3015 (not LF) requires 2.75 to 3.05 cubic feet for optimal tuning. Add another 0.15 cubic feet for the driver displacement, and more for any port volume you have inside the cabinet.

    Stuffing it into a tiny cabinet will hump the midbass and cut the nuts off the bottom. It will sound like a Bag-End.

    You can get away with a small port under two circumstances. One, the driver will never operate at full power. This works if you are driving it with a 30w amp (doubtful). The other is when the cab tuning frequency is below your lowest note. Vent velocity is highest right at the tuning frequency, and falls off rapidly as the frequency moves away.

    These do not apply to your situation. The tuning frequency is right in the bass range, and the vent will most likely be excited by full input power. Too small = chuffing, and that is objectionable.
     

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