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Kern IP-777 vs. Demeter VTBP-201s vs. Demeter HBP-1

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Zoom, Aug 10, 2002.


  1. Zoom

    Zoom

    Mar 31, 2002
    I'd like to get some opinions on these preamps.
    Also...Kerns are only available direct now?
    Any & all thoughts appreciated.
    Thanks
     
  2. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    i've written up soooo much on these pre's in the past couple of days, that i'm starting feel like a broken record... :D try a search, or try this thread for size.

    http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55383&pagenumber=2

    Henry sorta stopped using his dealer channels, much to their chagrin, but you can order Kern's straight from Henry and Nick using this number:

    262 657 0315

    i got mine last week, tho it did take 4 months! he told me at first 2-3 weeks, and i nearly forgot about it, but Henry called me out of the blue and asked if i was still interested. i was like, "what the hey?" and 3 days later... Welcome home!
     
  3. Classic5

    Classic5

    Mar 31, 2002
    Australia
    Hey Joker, whats the current price on a new Kern given they're being sold direct?

    Also, just out of interest, how come most of the comments on this site are on Demeter, Kern, and Aguilar preamps. What about Ampeg. I believe they make two models - anyone had any experience with them?
     
  4. Pre EB

    Pre EB

    Mar 15, 2002
    Denton, Tx
    Nobody mentions the po wittle 'ol F-1X, either:( :D
     
  5. Classic5

    Classic5

    Mar 31, 2002
    Australia
    My apologies Pre EB!

    I was thinking of the Alembic as well but I've read quite a few comments on them. Generally excellent comments but some say they're a bit limited on the EQ side? What's your experience with it in your setup?

    :cool:
     
  6. jerry

    jerry Doesn't know BDO Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 13, 1999
    Hawaii
    I have the Demeter 201 and love it........but it's not a tone tweakers dream machine.....just a straight ahead pure preamp!
     
  7. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    Dunno...

    most times, guys round here like to speak of the luscious booteeky stuff.

    but aint nothin' wrong with the Ampeg SVT-Pro. i know several gents who love theirs. classic SVT sound all in a single rack for those who wanna use more power.

    alembic's nail those vintage motown/bassman tones to a T. Sure, the mids control is cut only, but that tone is all creamy dreamy.

    as for the price of the Kern, its a given rule round here, that posting up prices are taboo. give Henry a call, and see for yourself.
     
  8. Classic5

    Classic5

    Mar 31, 2002
    Australia
    Well, I'ts gonna be an expensive phone call to Henry so I better make sure I call him from the office during a quite moment.;)

    Hope I don't get him at three in the morning or something. This time difference is a killer.
     
  9. Pre EB

    Pre EB

    Mar 15, 2002
    Denton, Tx
    Classic5,
    I'm not that much a tweaker with the EQ, but I just leave it flat and it sounds really, really sweet to me. I'm not sure if you've heard this, but flat is 2-10-2 bass, mid, treble, so if you get to try one start from there.
    I do use the deep switch on occasion, and that fattens it up quite a bit, but it seems more like a mid cut, not a bass boost. I'm not sure; I bought it mint but used ($395 seems to be around the going rate), without the manual, so I don't know all the tech stuff.The bright switch is too much for me. The DI is great.
    All in all, I love it and would highly recommend it to anyone. As for tone-tweakers, I really don't know if its the one. I would like a Superfilter to replace my silly BBE:D
    BTW, my choices were the Alembic or the SVP-Pro. Got a good deal, went with F-1X. I'll never part with it.

    Hey, how come its bad form to post prices on the board? Is Gard cutting prices that much or inconsistant with his customers? Is Kern wishy-washy on pricing? It's not like you're in someone's house asking the price on personal belongings. THIS IS GEAR!!!:D :p
     
  10. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    I know the Alembic's flat response is 2-10-2, but someone told me cause the Kern is based on the same design, and mental thinking, that it too is 2-10-2. anyone wanna help out with that one?
     
  11. Zoom

    Zoom

    Mar 31, 2002
    Jerry,
    Was the HBP-1 available when you got your 201?
    Did you compare the two?
    At first, I was hearing the HBP-1 was a little better than the 201, but now I'm starting to hear a few guys say the 201 gets the nod.
    I guess the HBP has an advantage EQ-wise, but sonically the 201 has a slight advantage?
    Maybe that has to do with the signal in the 201, not going through a SS EQ circuit?
    I dunno, just a thought.
    ...and the newer 201s, have the same setup as far as, effects loop & control, tuner out, front panel mute, etc..


    Joker,
    Same question for you, as above.
    And thanks for that link, I checked it out.
    Hate to ask about stuff that's recently been all talked out, so if there are any more links on this subject I wouldn't mind seeing them.
    (Also... I'm looking closely at the Stewart 1.2 ... small, powerful, lightweight, and no fan... Yeah!)

    The Kern, from what I've read, seems to be a super piece, but I'm getting a little leary, under the circumstances.

    I tried out the Avalon U-5, over the weekend, it sounds excellent!
    Too minimalistic? Maybe. (Not sure). Still thinking about it.
    Price-wise, ...it's king!
     
  12. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    The VTBP has two preamp tubes while the HBP-1 has only one. i've heard some guys can tell the diff, while others say, the HBP is similar enough during live use that it'd be impossible to notice. all i can say tho, when i first strapped on the VTBP, i knew i found my tone. a clear, modern, refined, and very articulate tube voice. i've been dying to try out an HBP tho. that parametric EQ could be killer within a Demeter frame of mind.

    Even vs. the Kern, the bright switch on the Demeter adds a very usable open top end that adds a gorgeous sheen and nice articulation that isnt as harsh nor hissy as it is on my Kern. on the Kern, i find myself having to adjust the trebs and tonal balance to remove the hiss, which does get annoying cause it becomes limited as to how much treble you can add before you hit the hiss again.

    also, like many who own a Kern know, the deep switch is very mild, while on the VTBP, its very noticible, and allows you to tweak the 120hz or 60hz range.

    the only drawback on the Dem is a lack of gain control and master out. easier to tame what gets pushed into my very sensitive Stewart. Tho, there is an internal power amp gain trim inside, i dont wanna have to pop open the hood everytime i need to tweak it.

    btw, if you like the Stewart, check out Peavey's own DPC1400x single rack power amp. it has a variable fan that blows only under stressful playing. annoying for quiet sets, but for a medium sized gig, very hard to notice. i have one as my big rig power amp, cause i'm a little leary as well of running my Stewart full power. you never know with all the meltdown stories. the Stew is more my low power gig, "love that high headroom" power amp.
     
  13. Zoom

    Zoom

    Mar 31, 2002
    Meltdowns?!?!.... Oh Noooo
    I wasn't aware of the 1.2's reputation.
    I may scratch that one off the list.
    I was thinking of an Acme B4, so reliable (big)power is a must.
    Speaking of reliability...I'm looking at some of the older posts on the Demeter, and can't help noticing several people had problems with them.
    (Saw your's----Is it all straightened out now)?
    Are they that delicate?? --- Yikes.
    For me, reliability is just as important as good sound. Geeze.....If it's not working, there is NO sound. :eek:

    Thanks for the info, joker.


    btw-Are you familiar with Avalon?
     
  14. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    delicate, no.

    and i doubt the Demeter's any more fragile than other booteek preamps out there already. still, if there is a prob, James and Phil are top notch and will bend over backwards as much as any other techs who put as much passion into the work they do. my problem seems to be two contacts touching when they shouldnt. i could do it myself, but Phil said he'd take care of it for me. what a dood, eh? :D

    and yea, many guys have expressed strange happenin's when running Stewarts at full tilt. even Stewart within their literature tell you to put an extra space between the power amp and whatever else for proper air flow. most guys say to use a fan blowing over the heatsinks, while others suggest to get the amp above your target wattage. Honestly, I only needed about only 350 watts to fill the small clubs and lounges i do. But instead of getting Stew's World 600, i got the World 1.2 which weighs about the same as the 600, yet has gobs and gobs of power that wouldnt ever stress the amp under the conditions i play.

    Btw, i'm dying to get my 4 ohm Acme B-2 which should be coming this monday or tuesday. and many have said, it rocks with Kern preamps.

    [MachoMan Randy Savage On]

    ...Oooooohh, Yeaaaa.....

    [MachoMan Randy Savage Off]
     
  15. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    oh yea,

    and avalon's rock like a mofo. clear, clean, uncolored, just your bass in all its glories (and blems). Adrian G uses one with his Crest power amp with great results. Has little to no EQ or tonal variation or potential, but with a good parametric EQ or stomp box or onboard active EQ, you'd have a killer setup.
     
  16. Zoom

    Zoom

    Mar 31, 2002
    Hey Joker,
    What was the waiting time, for your Acme?
     
  17. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    well,

    Andy had a 4 ohm B-2 on hand, so i got it right then and there. ordered it Tuesday, he shipped it Thursday, so i should get it monday or tuesday.

    but for a regular order, something like 2-3 weeks cause he has to order the parts, and it takes about 2 weeks just to get them.
     
  18. Pre EB

    Pre EB

    Mar 15, 2002
    Denton, Tx
    joker,
    How many preamps do you own? I too suffer from preamp GAS, but with having a family and starting a new business, I can't aquire all the ones I'd like (all of 'em!). Perhaps in the future I'll have Joe's Preamp Palace for all your bass preamp needs.:D
    BTW, congrats on the Acmes, I hope you guys like them. I think it's the best sounding cab I've ever heard. My brother too. He might be selling his 410XLT cause it can't compete tonally to his Acme 410.
     
  19. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    LOL,

    actually, the preamps are for a business that a few friends and I are starting! it'll be rental studio / rehearsal hall sometime next year right outside the GWB.

    the Demeter's mine, and i took out a loan to buy the other equipment. the Aguilar's for the tweak freaks. and the Kern's for the tubey, vintage guys. i could use them as my own, but i feel sorta guilty. :( still, i do admit to taking the Aguilar out for a spin on a recent gig. ;)

    funny enough, i was all ready to buy an Alembic F-1X for the old sckoo flava, but Henry called me 3 months later telling me he had one ready. not one to miss an opportunity, i pounced on it! we're thinking of getting an SVT later.

    havent thought of a name, but i'm hoping for Utopia, tho "Joker's Preamp Palace for all your bass preamp needs" has a nice ring to it. :D
     
  20. jerry

    jerry Doesn't know BDO Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 13, 1999
    Hawaii
    Zoom.....the HBP-1 was available when I got my Demeter......I just wanted somthing simple tone wise because I already have a EBS pre that has a lot of tweakablity! My Demeter is one of the newer one rack space jobies.....and it has two tubes in it.