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Kind of Confused

Discussion in 'Music Theory [DB]' started by theydolph, Aug 19, 2004.


  1. theydolph

    theydolph Guest

    Oct 26, 2002
    I have been transcribing Paul Chambers bassline from So What in a desperate attempt to improve my own lines over modal tunes and I am a little confused about one thing. In the B section (Eb-7) he seems to be be implying a Db major instead of the Eb-7. I can understand the relation between Db major and Eb Dorian but I am just a bit perplexed as to why he might take that approach.
     
  2. anonymous0726

    anonymous0726 Guest

    Nov 4, 2001
    It's the same scale, as you say. Does it sound like Db major or Eb minor? Does it sound good? (the ultimate answer). Post the clip and transcription if you can.
     
  3. anonymous0726

    anonymous0726 Guest

    Nov 4, 2001
    Also, melodically any chord from the family of chords works over any chord in the set. For instance play on the piana the Ionian chord in your left hand and aprgeggiate all of the chords, one by one, of the family of chrods in your right hand and you'll see that it makes melodic sense.
     
  4. godoze

    godoze

    Oct 21, 2002
    what is he playing the implies Db/-\ ?
     
  5. theydolph

    theydolph Guest

    Oct 26, 2002
    In the A section he's playing basically the reapeating motif of:
    F C B Bb | A G F A | D E F A c# | D C B Bb | A G F E | D

    Playing off of the D-7 and its Fifth (A-7), then in the B section he kind of skips around not really sticking with any one chord sound for a couple bars then he goes to:
    Db F Gb G | Ab
    Which sounds like Db maj to my ears.

    I think the main problem I have with modal tunes is that you are really playing the sound of a key (mode) instead of a chord and all those possibilities trip me up.
     
  6. anonymous0726

    anonymous0726 Guest

    Nov 4, 2001
    I think you might be blinded by the trees a bit. From that first line you put out I just see D dorian. The C# might be a little 'A7'ish sounding, but he's just playing melodic ideas with the D dorian sound being the dominating flavor.
     
  7. theydolph

    theydolph Guest

    Oct 26, 2002
    I think in that context A-7 and D-7 don't really sound much different. He's just alternating starting on D then A.
     
  8. anonymous0726

    anonymous0726 Guest

    Nov 4, 2001
    Disagree. His phrases look two measures long in which case he started once on the 3rd, once on the root and the other on the 5th.
     
  9. theydolph

    theydolph Guest

    Oct 26, 2002
    I see what you're saying. So what I'm hearing as a bar of D-7 followed by a bar of A-7 is really just a 2 bar phrase in D.

    As a follow-up question: in a modal tune like this are all of the scale degrees equal? For instance, would playing a line based on E (Phrygian) or B (Locrian) reinforce the sound of the key (mode) just as well as a line based on D (Dorian).

    Also that F as the first note in the line above is a typo, it should be a D.
     
  10. anonymous0726

    anonymous0726 Guest

    Nov 4, 2001
    I would say not, just as each note in the scale has it's own quality.

    The numbers (modes, etc.) give you some note choices, but that's all. Beyond that you have to use your ears, and by really knowing the sound of your choices you know what colors you have to create your line (solo or bass line). Also note that you have other things that you can use, like pentatonic scales and chromatic notes (neighboring tones) as in your example above.
     
  11. theydolph

    theydolph Guest

    Oct 26, 2002
    Thanks for all the quick replys.

    I'm going to go play over a D-7 chord for a couple hours.
     
  12. P.C.'s note choicees on So What were discussed at great length in an older thread. This one? His lines over the bridge do seem to suggest Db Major, which is somewhat perplexing, but if you listen to everything else that's going on, including the melody, it's obviously Eb dorian.

    When you are first learning to walk over one chord for many measures, it is important to place your roots in strategic locations. IOW, don't start off taking a bunch of liberties with any note that strikes your fancy, or where your hand happens to wander. At the very least, you should put a root on the downbeat of every section. Better yet, every four bars. Better still, every other bar, and alternate with the fifth as target note. By doing this, you will help yourself as well as the rest of the band by defining the form, and not getting lost.