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Kubicki Ex-Factor Fraud on ebay?

Discussion in 'Basses [BG]' started by rogerbmiller, Mar 31, 2006.


  1. rogerbmiller

    rogerbmiller Gold Supporting Member

    Sep 16, 2003
    NYC
    Check out this link which I find to be very suspicious:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Kubicki-Ex-Fact...oryZ4713QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

    No serial number on the neck. Seller says there is one in the neck pocket but doesn't want to disassemble the bass to check because he just restrung it.

    Seller say in his recollection, this is number 56 and all Phil could tell him about the bass is that it was made in the mid 1980's.

    Here's the thing-- first, the SN would be 056 and not simply 56. Second, if this bass was number 056, or anything less than #100 or so for that matter, the electronics guard would not be shaped like a semi-circle. Rather, it would be shaped like a semi-circle plus a slight additional tail where the bass was routed all the way to the output jack. This bass does not have that feature. It is only routed out like a half circle.

    Third, the hardware on the back has print regarding patents, etc. Early Kubicki's did not have this-- they were simply blank.

    Fourth, there are no closeups of the bridge. While I do not want to be too harsh about this seller, I would sugest that it is really easy to distinguish the difference between a Philip Kubicki-made factor and a Fender-made factor based on the bridge. The fenders look cheaper and tend to scratch a lot as they were not anodized black but rather were painted.

    Lastly, the opening and BIN prices are at the high for Kubicki's on ebay-- in fact they are at the very high or above. While such prices would be warranted for a really old Kubicki, I would make such a disclaimer and provide evidence (i.e. neck pocket photos) to support my prices. Neither hs been done in the case of this auction.

    I'd love to get other TB-ers observations and thoughts about this. Either way, buyer beware!
     
  2. Could be legit, could be bull sh*t. But it shouldn't be that hard track down a number to call Phil and ask him about the bass, I'd think he'd remember the conversation about this bass if it took place. And on any item over $1000 I would most definitely suggest an escrow agency to ensure no getting bent over and, well, you know...
     
  3. Spector_Ray

    Spector_Ray

    Aug 8, 2004
    Texas
    I asked him how long he's been playing bass because it wouldn't take long to loosen the strings enough to unbolt the neck to get a pic of the SN. Let's see what he says in his reply.
     
  4. pickles

    pickles Gold Supporting Member

    Mar 23, 2000
    Ventura, CA
    Email Phil through his website, or if that doesn't work I can get you his number. Phil is a classic guy that always likes to talk story about his old basses.

    If it is number 56, it'd probably be a smokin bass.
     
  5. rogerbmiller

    rogerbmiller Gold Supporting Member

    Sep 16, 2003
    NYC
    Thanks for the comments. I have 2 follow up comments:

    1) Phil does not like being contacted about ebay auctions. Trust me this is from experience and it makes sense as ebay auctions significantly undercut his sale prices and he is busy making and repairing basses.

    2) I can guarantee all of you that this is not SN 056 as I have a picture somewhere of a friends #080-plus, and it too has the extended rear cutout. I'll post the pic if I can find it. Really the only question here regarding the cliam of SN 056 is whether this was mention as an "IIRC" to induce vintage-price bidding.

    3) For whatever reason, there are a lot of fakes out there and most of them have low SNs or none at all. I know this from a friend who is a Kubicki collector.

    So we'll see what this guy comes back to Spector_Ray with. My guess is you'll get nothing.
     
  6. id say its real...the neck anyway...on the back of the headstock where theres a small round wooden dot, my kubicki had that (1516 06 89)..looks real to me, the hardware looks genuine, and as far as i know the only place to get the hardware is from phil or from another kubicki...

    as far as fakes go? ive seen a fair few different ex-factors that are genuine prototypes..
     
  7. pickles

    pickles Gold Supporting Member

    Mar 23, 2000
    Ventura, CA
    Thats different from my experience. You're telling me he won't answer the question of whether or not he ever produced basses without a serial number on the headstock? :eyebrow:

    If thats a knock off, its a real good one.
     
  8. rogerbmiller

    rogerbmiller Gold Supporting Member

    Sep 16, 2003
    NYC
    Here are pics of my friends Ex-Factor, #080 on the nose. Note the extension to the jack on the backplate and the lack of any writing on the back hardware. The extended backplate went up to about #100, not sure as to the hardware writing.

    Also, I should mention that according to my source, a lot of Kubicki parts floated around during the Fender Custom Shapp mass-production years. These very often turned up in "fakes" where the serial numbers were forged. It is quite possible that the bass on ebay is a DIY project assembled partially or entirely by FCS parts-- i.e. NOT A KUBICKI.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. rogerbmiller

    rogerbmiller Gold Supporting Member

    Sep 16, 2003
    NYC
    He answers the questions but he does express that such queries are a nuisance. Can you blame him?
     
  10. rogerbmiller

    rogerbmiller Gold Supporting Member

    Sep 16, 2003
    NYC
    Of course these are genuine Kubicki parts. My argument is that this bass islikely not the low SN bass it is being loosely represented as. I should not have used the word fake if I did. Would "Doctored" or "misrepresented" seem more appropriate?

    BTW, Phil always put serial numbers on his basses.
     
  11. Spector_Ray

    Spector_Ray

    Aug 8, 2004
    Texas
    Here is the guy's response to my question.

    "I've been playing over twenty years and I work on my own equipment. The number is not a serial number, according to Mr. Kubicki, who stated that they never wrote numbers on bodies. So it has no value as an authentication tool. If this makes you uncomfortable, don't bid. Thanks"
     
  12. ibz

    ibz

    Apr 14, 2005
    Columbus, OH
    If something like this even looks remotely sketchy, a la this auction, I'll just pass it up and not even take the risk of being ripped off. Then 99% you'll be satisfied with what you got and you never had to worry about getting jipped.

    I'll do this even if I'm in the market for the item and I want it bad.
     
  13. PBFACTOR

    PBFACTOR

    Dec 21, 2001
    Boise, ID
    it's real, the question is what year. not many people can fake a 32 piece quaterswn neck.
     
  14. rogerbmiller

    rogerbmiller Gold Supporting Member

    Sep 16, 2003
    NYC
    Never said it wan't a Kubicki. I just said that the seller is trying to represent it as a very early SN Kubicki. For all weknow this is a frankenstein made of FCS parts...
     
  15. for all we know, we could all be really suspicious and this could be 100% real..you never know....there are mistakes in production, this could have slipped passed and not been serial numbered, but it could be fake...IMO, as long as it sounds and plays by your (personal) standards then its a good bass isnt it?...if you like thos factors then you can justify price...hell i traded my early fender custom shop kubicki that was stuart hamms for a KSD...a number doesnt make a bass better....
     
  16. ExFactorMysteryPrototype.
    kubicki97humbvoltagerear.
    kubickifenderhumbuckerspage.
    maybe not
     
  17. What is a good price for a used post Fender Kubicki?
     
  18. rogerbmiller

    rogerbmiller Gold Supporting Member

    Sep 16, 2003
    NYC
    The going price is around $1000-- sometimes a little more depending on the color and condition. The FCS ones go for less and the pre fender ones go for more.
     
  19. Thanks for the info.
     

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