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Laminate repair

Discussion in 'Setup & Repair [DB]' started by tsolo, Dec 21, 2002.


  1. tsolo

    tsolo

    Aug 24, 2002
    Ft. Worth
    OK, I've done some searches but haven't hit on the right key. I want to repair the laminate on the top and back edges of a plywood (obviously) bass. Any tips on how? - just carefully pry the layers apart and insert glue then, clamp? How do in insert the glue? What kind of glue? Thanks...
     
  2. jugband

    jugband

    Jan 16, 2001
    Visit www.stewmac.com (Stewart Macdonald), where you can buy super glue in just about any consistency from "water" to "Jell-O". You can also get "pipettes", various precision applicator tips, and glue syringes.
    ___________________________________________
    Guitar luthiers repair small de-laminations and splintering by flowing in a little water-thin super-glue and holding it down with a firm finger for a few seconds. Stewmac also sells super-glue remover for fingers ;)

    A bass has a LOT of area & thickness compared to a guitar. I don't know if super-glue would do, or if any other glue (such as epoxy or hide) could be thinned enough to flow well.

    Anyway, Steward Macdonald has plenty of glues, etc. including Titebond and granular hide glue, and you can get glue syringes there.
     
  3. Jeff Bollbach

    Jeff Bollbach Jeff Bollbach Luthier, Inc.

    Dec 12, 2001
    freeport, ny
    Sorry to disagree with Jugband but I think that Tite-bond would be the best choice here. While thin crazyglue will flow and its capillary action will equal water-the set time is minimal and there is much opportunity for mess and catastrophe. It is also costly. Aliphatic resin thins nicely with warm water and while it is not as effective in it's gap filling qualities, thinned it will still set strong with a good joint. The real advantage to this glue in this situation is the time factor. There is ample time to flow the glue in and then clamp. Thin the glue 1-1. Brush the delaminates with a toothbrush and push them down repeatedly to suck up the juice. Wipe down with a moist paper towel and clamp[use wax paper twixt clamp and bass] Wait 2-3 hrs and clean with vinegar. What clamps to use is prolly another post.
     
  4. jugband

    jugband

    Jan 16, 2001
    Well, actually you aren't exactly disagreeing. When it comes to de-lamination, and especially splintering, water-thin super-glue and a Firm Finger are The Guitar Luthier's Friends... but a guitar is a far cry from a double bass, even a plywood bass.

    Mostly I was figuring that the glue syringes they sell at Stewart MacDonald might be good for injecting some other kind of glue, that would be better on bass-sized damage

    If there was another kind that could be thinned enough to flow into delaminations, it should be useable with one of those syringes.

    There are a lot of things at www.stewmac.com that are useful for bass finishing/repair, but that's primarily a guitar site.
     
  5. arnoldschnitzer

    arnoldschnitzer AES Fine Instruments

    Feb 16, 2002
    Brewster, NY, USA
    Whatever glue you use, get an artist palette knife to work the glue in. Jeff's instructions are right on the money. However, if you do use cyanoacrylate (super-g), put some tape on your fingers so they don't become a permanent part of the bass.
     
  6. Using vinegar to clean up excess glue can stain certain species of wood. Especially cherry. I'd say get it all off while still wet with the moist rag and skip the vinegar. Just a word of caution in the never ending glue discussions.

    Nice pictures btw Jeff!
     
  7. Jeff Bollbach

    Jeff Bollbach Jeff Bollbach Luthier, Inc.

    Dec 12, 2001
    freeport, ny
    How many cherry plys have you seen?
    Merry X-mas! OOPS-that's not PC. Happy Kwanzukah-mas!
    jeff
     
  8. Right.

    Not a lot of cherry plys out there. What about all the MYSTERY wood veneers from Africa, South America and Asia? You're sure vinegar ain't gonna stain those? If you build your next kayak out of okoume, watch out, that one for sure stains. Plus if an earlier repair was buffed out with steel wool before a finish was applied and bits remain in the wood the vinegar will react with it and turn black no matter what the species. (A very traditional, old-timey finish, mixing iron filings with vinegar.)(For furniture that is.) Like I say, just a word of caution. I'm on your side, my friend!

    and a berry, berry isthmus to you.
     
  9. tsolo

    tsolo

    Aug 24, 2002
    Ft. Worth
    Thanks, all. I'll be aware of all the concerns. I'll get the laminate glued back - I think I can figger out how to clamp - then I'll determine how to clean up on an inconspicuous place. My main concern is arresting the delamination and which glue to use. Hadn't thought about clean up. That's why this is such a useful forum. Merry Christmas.