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Late to the party! (Bergantino IP310 content)

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Eublet, May 3, 2010.

  1. Eublet


    Jul 28, 2006
    I've been going through all the IP310 talk here for, let me thing....FOREVER! :D

    I've wanted one of these since I first read about them back in 2006. Just never pulled the trigger because of cost, a slight aversion to the weight, and other things.

    Well, I ordered one last week and it should be here tomorrow. For a preamp to startoff, I went with what most people seem to advise using which is the Summit Audio TD-100 with the Berg mod. I'll also be trying various other preamps with it down the road. I'm going to keep my eye out for a Kern IP-777 which so many have raved about. For the time being, I'll also play around a few floor pedals I own, including a Sadowsky and a Sansamp BDDI. I also have a Tone Hammer en route which I have very high hopes for. I'll probably run this through the TD-100 as well just to add a bit more warmth and get the gain matching right on the backend.

    I'm also very excited to try running the FX Send off my TC RH450 into the IP310. I'm just excited to finally have one of these altogether.

    Anyway, the cab won't be here until tomorrow, and it seems interest in the IP310 has fallen considerably compared to the IP112, so perhaps this is all old news, and I'm so late to the party that there is no one still around here to party with. Anyone care to celebrate with me over the next few days? I'm hoping it just all works out great, but I have a plethora of things I will probably need to ask. A big part of what's driving this is I really want to start noodling with studio quality preamps more. The IP310 will (hopefully) provide me a baseline for doing that.
  2. chadds


    Mar 18, 2000
    Folks who need the IP112 can be in the I need a 1x12 camp so they don't need the IP310. The IP310 does things the IP112 can't do. The IP112 serves me really well in small intimate settings. Even adding the EX112 I find that the it has it's limits. The IP310 I have reported can do outside without a band shell at high volumes while retaining all of it's tone without breakup.
    So enjoy! Remember the only weakness with the TD is that you can't attenuate the bass eq. The IP310 has so much you can get bad sound when there's too much coming from your bass or pre. Less of an issue with a passive bass but possible.
    Again enjoy.
    Oh and an IP310 sounds great in very low volume settings.
  3. Eublet


    Jul 28, 2006
    Thanks, I'm holding off on getting an HPF for now. Hoping the Tone Hammer can work without it mostly. I might pickup the Summit FEQ-50 later to use for EQ instead. It has a 30hz HPF which I'm not sure is low enough.
  4. Eublet


    Jul 28, 2006
    Can anyone explain this? Summit Audio's FEQ-50 advertising says "The FeQ-50's fully passive high-pass filter has a knee at 30Hz with a 6dB-per-octave roll-off." Does that mean the 30 hz is the center of the knee, where the 6db reduction is measured when engaged?
  5. chadds


    Mar 18, 2000
    The Summit Feq50 is great for recording it's too subtle for electric bass. Also adding it's cost to that of a TD-100 and you would do better, way better with a dedicated bass pre.
    Summit makes incredible gear! This is just the wrong tool for the job.
  6. Eublet


    Jul 28, 2006
    I don't need much EQ as the passive tone of my Lakland DJ is 95% there already. Just want something to control the sub-lows, boost low-end, and maybe tame upper-mid a tad. The FEQ-50 looks like it would be perfect for that. I hope to get my coloration with other things. Of course, ultimately I'll probably have a more dedicated bass preamp. Just not sure which one I want to start with yet. Nothing really jumps out at me accept the RBI at the moments. I don't know why, but the Millenia TD-1 just doesn't appeal to me, despite all the great things I hear about it. The Kern is very interesting, and I'll be on constant lookout for one of these. Maybe an SVP-PRO or BSP.
  7. jokerjkny


    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PHL
    the ip310 is a crazy terrific cab.

    i've heard it w/ a db680, swr marcus miller, my kern, yadda yadda and yadda...

    and it just shines w/ whatever the mother you want. the swr actually was pretty fun.
  8. Eublet


    Jul 28, 2006
    <waves Jedi hand>You don't really want to keep that Kern...
  9. murphy


    May 5, 2004
    Toronto, Canada
    Subscribed and very very interested
  10. Joelc73

    Joelc73 Supporting Member

    Nov 13, 2000
    New York
    Congrats. The IP310 is still the greatest amp known to man. Find a Kern or a TD1. Actually, one of my favorite pre-amps with the IP is a Demeter VTBP201s - and they come up for sale a lot.

    Good luck and enjoy it.

  11. Try going out of the headphones out on the front. This will give you more volume control through the RH450 master volume and just run the gain control on the RH450 to about 9 o'clock approx, for an ideal match to the input of the IP. I've tried it and it works great.
  12. murphy


    May 5, 2004
    Toronto, Canada
    I wonder how my Alembic F-2b would sound with it
  13. chadds


    Mar 18, 2000
    Not to argue. My hour long test session revealed the ineffectiveness of the FeQ50 for this application. I had my Berg Modded TD-100 and every cable possible for trying every output and an IP 112, 310, and 212 thanks to Jong at Jive Sound all in a quiet test room. Through all this I became a regular correspondent with Eric Papp the owner of Summit. He concurred that it's the wrong application. I'd hoped from the literature that that hi-pass function would duplicate the one on the Berg line driver. Trust me very timid barely noticeable affect.
    Not to toot my horn but I am the impetus for the Berg Mod. It was Eric's deep listening that got this happening.
  14. jokerjkny


    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PHL

    i'm realizing more and more studio eq's are more for precision that you can only really appreciate thru a quality studio monitor. the travel in the EQ's is made for tonal minutiae, not on the fly tone shaping on a loud outdoor stage. and most bass amp cabs, and yes, even the ip series, despite the rep, will still be too voiced to allow the EQ to do its job, or even be effective.

    i.e. even with my acme and epifani cabs, it was an "all or nothing" kind of deal, where you either heard the EQ doing its job or you didnt unless you cranked the cut/boost knobs.

    thankfully, you do have a choice of bass-guitar-centric pres like the demeter hbp-1, swr marcus, etc.
  15. Bassflute


    Jun 24, 2006
    Endorsing Artist: MTD basses and strings; Bergantino Amps & Cabs
    it has TWO preamps, which both sound a little different, AND a high pass filter, AND an impedance dial, AND an effect loops, AND phantom power, AND multiple inputs and outputs which can all be used at once, and it sounds way tubier and 'vintage', and with more 'character' than the TD100 does, and it's less than $100.00 more. Blows everything else I've heard away...and I've heard and tried a LOT...


    Not that the TD 100 is bad, it definitely is NOT...the 2BA is just better and more flexible...


    But put EITHER ONE with a TLA 50...now we're talkin' BASSSS...

    And prepare yourself for a LIFE ALTERING EXPERIENCE when your IP shows up...no joking...


  16. chadds


    Mar 18, 2000
    Really! All this talk of pres yet the IP just brings it on!
    When I got the IP112 and EX112 I was a little concerned that I'd already sold another rig that just did my Guild Ashbory justice.
    Put Glock pre on top plugged in hit a note and it spun my head around!
    They sound just so right and expose your technique:)
  17. Eublet


    Jul 28, 2006
    I am trying to contain excitement here, but after playing around a bit with the IP310, I am very pleased, and as impressed with it as I've ever been with any piece of equipment on day 1.

    You guys are all right, the TD-100 sounds great with the IP. Just wonderfully warm yet clear and smooth. I of course ran my Lakland DJ straight into the TD-100, and also put several preamp/DI boxes in front of it, including a Tone Hammer, Sadowsky and Sansamp BDDI. I have to admit, they all sounded excellent, but the BDDI just KILLED through the TD-100. I tried it direct into the IP310 also, and it was plenty powerful enough to push the poweramp but it lost a fair amount of the warmth that the TD-100 brings. Hard to describe. I had the BDDI setup as close to flat as I can get, with Blend, Drive, Presence and EQ all around 40%. To my ear, the "scoop" introduced with the drive control is offset largely by the blend and cut EQ on the other knobs. The result is a very warm, tubey tone that the TD-100 really brings alive.

    I was worried a bit about that big horn up top, but it was about the most pleasant thing I've heard in a long time. Very present and clear yet smooth and silky. Wonderful top end, and with nothing but the TD-100 in front of my bass, there was plenty of highs.

    The Sadowsky was also outstanding in front of the TD-100. Boosted lows to almost 9 o'clock and it was a smoking modern jazz tone. I was also worried about the low-end boost from the Sad into the IP, but the DSP setting seems to control that just fine. More to come on that. It wasn't boomy at all, but thick and punchy just like you would expect from a Sadowsky.

    The Tone Hammer is something I just got, and I'm not sure I've figured out how to manipulate it just yet. I mean, the non-AGS settings are easy enough. It sounds great like that, but I really bought it to get some warmth with the AGS control. I have to say that while it sounds really good, the BDDI is the winner for me right now. I'm not a crunch kind of guy, and it seems the Tone Hammer wants to go there really quickly when it's kicked in.

    Oh, and yeah, the cab is a bit heavy. No big deal. Pop in the casters, and it wheels around just fine. I'll be carting it when I move it very far anyway, so who cares? For something that sounds this good, it's worth it I think.

    Back to the DSP setting, I had emailed Jim before the cab came in to see if he could tell me about the DSP options for this thing. He told me to forward him the serial # when it got here, and he could tell me what was currently on it. The marking on the sticker on the back says "Dry", whatever that means. It sounds so good, I wouldn't want to think about touching it. I did disengage the DSP for a bit, and it was much more rumbly and boomy. This would only work outdoors, but the mids where less smooth, and the top end also lost it's sheen. I don't think I'd ever want to run the cab with the DSP off, so no problem at all.

    Couple of questions for a few of you:

    1) The Berg Mod on the TD-100 - I know it drops the output, but by how much? What seems to be the optimal setting on the front knob for the Berg? I guess that is totally dependent on input volume and output of the bass, right?

    2) The Horn seems to be a bit more "hissy" than what I'm used to. It's not bad, and considering the volume it puts out, would never be a problem at a gig. I think maybe I just need to play more with the gain settings to get a good signal to the IP without having to turn the poweramp as much. Anyone else notice this?

    3) My passive DJ into the TD-100 doesn't really make the signal light stay on. It does flash pretty consistently on attack, but not a steady light when holding out notes unless I really dig in and make the bass "burp" a good bit. I have a somewhat light touch, but I'm wondering if this is normal for others?

    4) The white Powercon connector on the back. I guess this is so I could power the TD-100 if I wanted if I make the right cable, yes? 12 Amps should be plenty for that and much more. I guess I should check on that.

    All in all, :hyper::hyper::hyper::hyper::hyper:
  18. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    First off, I'm glad that you like the IP310! :hyper:

    Regarding the DSP, if it is marked "Dry" then you have one setting which is using the DSP to EQ the frequency response very close to "flat" and one setting which has no EQ (the "Dry" setting). I am not sure if the complex compression/limiting thing is still going on in the Dry setting or not. I can be a little difficult to tell which setting is which (there is an "in" setting and an "out" setting via the switch on the back, but I was never sure which one was ch. 1 and which was ch. 2 - and sometimes I think that Jim had the labels for 1 and 2 switched up - on mine, at least).

    But grats! I hope you get many years of good service out of this beast! :bassist: :bassist: :bassist: :cool:

  19. Eublet


    Jul 28, 2006
    Thanks, Tom. I have to say, I got several opinions via PM from folks about the IP310 before I pulled the trigger, but your description of it seems to be spot on with regard to my impression thus far. Maybe that means we have simialr tastes...I don't know. But to me, sitting on the floor 3-4 feet in front of the IP310, playing my bass directly into the TD-100, it sounded about as flat and "monitor-like" as anything I've ever heard. The low-end is certainly more full than a typical floor wedge monitor, but it was the upper-mid content along with the crossover into the horn that I was hoping would be most monitor-like. It sounds fantastic, much like wearing a good pair of cans in a studio when recording. It seems you can never get that kind of tone in a live rig, even if listening to it in a solo setting.

    Now that I think about it, this is what the TD-100 seems to bring...that "headphone in the studio" kind of tone. Clear, warm, nice sheen up top, etc. I am already thinking about a Millenia TD-1! :help:

    I also REALLY liked how the entire rig responds to that burping/grinding thing that jazz basses do. It didn't get harsh or jump out too much on a heavy attack like some setups will do. Again, much like headphones in the studio. I really, really love it so far, at least sitting here in my living room. I need to get it on a gig, which will happen very soon.
  20. Eublet


    Jul 28, 2006
    Thanks, Cameron. I may have to try that preamp at some point. I have to say, the BDDI through the TD-100 right now seems to give me the tube tone I'm after. I never really liked the BDDI much until I started using it on a lot of in-ear gigs, where it totally kills. I haven' been able to make the BDDI work well with a bass rig though, so I'm completely surprised to be so happy with it on the IP.

    As for the TLA-50, how do you hook everything up with your IP? I've been looking at the manuals, which say you should run the TRS on the TD-100 to the TLA, but that's the output that was modded to connect to the IP. Seems like using the TLA-50 would negate having the Berg mod in the first place, no?

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