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Discussion in 'Music [DB]' started by hernameisrio, Nov 16, 2015.
Can we make this a thing?
That would be nice but this is one of those things that isn't related to instrument type tho. Most latin jazz is played on electric bass guitars and not so often on Double basses. I'd still support creating it and see if it's possible to have this one category also be attached to the EB side.
I disagree. UB, maybe not so much, but Ampeg Baby bass is to latin jazz what Kay is to country. Ever hear of Andy Gonzales?
TBH, I don't see baby basses here on the left coast that often. There seems to be a lot more EB players. If you're going to name DB players, Cachao and Cachaito for sure. still... I haven't been in around salsa/latin in a long long time but that's still my impression. It's more EB than Baby Bass.
Lets not forget that Afro-cuban based music is not the only thing in this category. Afro-brazilian is predominantly played by EB players. I've done a search and only know of two UB players of reknown in a sea of EB players: Nilson Matta and Luiz Alves. If anybody knows others, post it - I'm looking for more examples than just those two.
To me there are two different classes of things called "Latin music".
1) Real latin music with all its subdivisions (Cuban, Mexican, Brazilian, etc.)
2) "Latin style" jazz - as exemplified by hundreds of big band charts and combo performances. Think "Blue Bossa" or "On Green Dolphin Street".
I suspect #1 rarely uses the standard double bass, sometimes uses Baby Basses, and most commonly uses electric bass. #2 very often uses double bass.
Personally, I am not interested in #1, as I am unlikely to take up performance in one or more of those styles. (Speaking ONLY for myself.) Each of those styles has its own language, history, performance practice just as bebop, trad-jazz, or bluegrass. I would however be very interested as a new jazz bass player in learning more about #2. Currently those discussions are kind of buried in "Jazz" discussions.
Meh, count me out then. At this point, I don't really care about watered down jazz versions of another cultures music. Some of that poopie are abominations.
Well, some certainly is what my kids call "popokaka" (don't ask), but there is a lot of amazing music created by a collaboration of jazz and latin musicians. Do you know this album?
Also, How about Chucho Valdes? I don't know if Afro-Cuban falls under the category "latin", but go to a Chucho concert and you will always see a serious upright player frameworking rhythmic structures so complex that this classically trained white boy can often not even discern the time signatures.
While the Ampeg Baby Bass is the "classic" salsa bass, you'll more often see other EUBs in use these days. I recently saw Poncho Sanchez open for Eddie Palmieri. Poncho's guy played an Azola and Eddie's guy played an Eminence. I used to play an NS WAV when I was in a salsa\Latin jazz band.
While we're at it, does Flamenco Jazz count? If you want to hear some mind blowing Spanish stuff with upright, check out this:
Oh man I'll definitely check it out! I've found and made some cool playlists on Spotify that I'll post too.
I guess no love on here for Ampeg Baby Bass huh? I'm going to visit the one I'm thinking of buying, today...hoping to make a final decision this weekend. I didn't realize people were so polarized about them on this forum. I always find it so funny when I fall for something so hard and think it's so great, and then other people are just like Cool Story Bro and somehow manage to go on with their lives. Lucky for them.
I've been getting really into salsa especially all the Fania records stuff, mambo, Afro-Cuban, some of Tito Puente's versions of jazz classics....I love it.
I think the issue is that "Latin bass" is an incredibly broad term covering everything from Mexican Norteno or banda, Dominican bachata or meringue, Brazilian bossa nova or samba, Columbian cumbia, Puerto Rican reggaeton, Cuban salsa or timba, etc. Had you started with salsa/Latin jazz, I think the conversation would have been more focused.
If you're going to be playing salsa and can find a Baby Bass for a good price, pick it up by all means. I could never find one when I was playing salsa and by the time I was getting ready to order one of the modern South American clones (Sendel, MOG, etc), I quit the band I was in.
The tumbao is the foundation of salsa bass. You may notice a conspicuous absence of kick drum is salsa and that role is filled by bass, which takes on more of a rhythmic/percussive role than in other types of music. You'll never have to cajole salsa dancers into dancing...they're there to dance. It's an awesome music and I sorely miss playing it.
Oh yeah! I kept it broad just figuring it would be more to talk about. <3
If you don't already have it, Oscar Stagnaro's The Latin Bass Book is an excellent resource.
There's much much much more to Brazilian bass than just Samba (Bossa Nova is still largely a form of Samba). Baiao, Frevo, Maraketu, Samba Funk, and so much more. I thinks it's equally as rich as the afro-Cuban rhythms, just that there's very little that English speakers know about. I haven't even scratched the surface but I know they're out there.
If you were to give the correct honor to each culture, they would have their own sub forums but neither is well understood by most "westerners".
On a recent trip to Havana I saw more upright basses than electrics (although I saw a bunch of electrics as well). Talking to some Cuban bass players during my visit I really got the impression that upright is more common there than electric, though for a lot of the more modern stuff electric may be the norm.
Not everyone here.
I always have regretted not having bought a Baby Bass back in the day when they were dirt cheap. But at that time I was dumb as a stump and thought they were square
I haven't seen many jazz players ( myself definitely included) who could get that authentic "feel." Knowing (hearing/feeling) what not to play. I'd like to see a really good Latin bassist sit in with a main stream jazz group to play their "Latin tunes." ( "Delilah" for example.) I can imagine the drummer looking around for one But then maybe not. I'm often wrong.
I got to meet and hang with Tony Banda (Poncho Sanchez' bassist) but the highlight was getting to know him on a personal level. He also signed my Ibanez bass! What a cool guy. Even let me try his Baby bass.
My favorite Tito Puente reference... EVER!:
(@0:34 - 0:41)
I bought the Ampeg Baby Bass. It's a 1961...the neck was restored at one point but done well, it has a wood Azola bridge, and original electronics with an added pickup on the bridge.
Can you guys just call me once in a while and remind me to go to my job, eat, and sleep?
Seriously the best money I have ever spent in my life thus far. Oh my god.
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